The Fourth topic

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The Fourth topic

Post by Admin on Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:53 am

Hi guys and gals, just in case you're about to wish you had some English this week I'm going to put up 3 alternatives for you to discuss - as always you can just comment on 1 , 2 or all 3.

With one group last week we started talking about the French Education system.

What are it's strong and weak points? What changes would you like to see to it? Are there some subjects where teachers could be partially replaced or aided by computers or technology? Do traditional school buildings need a rethink? Is English a waste of time and resources on some university courses? Or anything else you want to say...
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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Anaël Maublanc on Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:09 pm

I can especially talk about the French Education system of primary school because I studyed it last year... for some times government has separated primary school on three educations ( education 1 : pre-school child; education 2 : CP, CE1, CE2 and education 3 : CM1, CM2, 6ème = this last eduaction will take place next september). This new system is promising for students because it allows students to take their times on acquisition of knowledge. In fact they can't repeat a school year, they have 3 years in each education to learn the programme which is in the BO (=official journal). Then, I'm going to underligne another point which is about grade. In fact, we can note a change in primary school where it's actually forbidden to give some grades, teachers just have to give judgment as "knowledge", "not knowledge " or "in the process of knowledge" (I hope you understand my last expression because I don't find the meaning of "en cours d'acquisition" in English sorry :/). Personaly, I think these 2 points are strong for students because they have possibility to go at their own pace and don't be in panic if they don't succeed to understand every lessons. At the last of each education, teachers have to give a final assessment on the student's knowledge to see his late or not.

About computers or technology, I was shocked to see, 2 years ago, in my last work experience that students who were in pre-school child (they are between 2 and 5 years old) used netbook instead of play with building plays and so on. Of course, it was to learn them maybe how to play with numerals or geometric... but I think they are too young and they have to time to use it later... Of course, computers or technology can be great for students if teachers know how to use them : in visual art, it's better for students to see in full-size work of author or in geography and history, computers showcase knowledge thanks to videos and document research.

However, there is one weak point in the French Education system as well as the wednesday morning's school... it's the hours dedicated to French and Matematic lessons. Actually, French Education is separated between history, exercise, visual art, music lesson, sciences, citizenship, english but when I talked with other teachers they told me they hadn't time to finish their programs on French and Matematic because they missed hours !!! This is a negative point because yes students learn visual art, music .... but the main disciplines are French and Matematic. This weak point suffers later in secondary school where students don't know read or calculate a multiplication Surprised

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Marjorie Braud on Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:10 pm

First of all, I am not an expert of the French Education system like Anaël but I want to say that I agree with her about the utilization of new technologies. For me, children should not use these technologies when they are too young for some health reasons but also for their socialization. In fact, all of us know that the airwaves which come from these electronic devices have long-term bad consequences for the human body, but less people know that they also contribute to loneliness and dependence.
Moreover, I think we should start to learn foreign languages earlier and some teachers (obviously not you, Mr Cox) should change their teaching methods. From my own experience, since I am in secondary school, I only study texts and my level of English didn’t improve consequently (since this year, of course). The learning process is mainly focused on reading and writing. Anyway, if I must argue another point, it would be the marking system. In fact, for several people, it’s difficult to be judged with only a mark. This is not the reflection of the level of English. A person isn’t reduced to a 7 or a 17 but how it can understand and communicate. To me, a system in which there are just appreciations and feedbacks would be adapted.
Concerning the positive aspects, France is a country where students have lots of holidays. I have been studying in Spain for 1 year so I can notice the difference and compare the 2 different systems. In Spain, I had only two holidays during the entire year and here in France, we have five holidays! Moreover, we are lucky enough to benefit from a free education (at public universities). This is not the case in numerous countries. For example, in the United States, students have to pay astronomical tuition fees to go to university. This is unfair. I do believe that studying in France is great as we take advantage of reputed education across the world, but to my mind, some aspects can be improved.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Jordan Raynaud on Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:42 pm

Hello John,

The French education system is for me, one of the best thing never made in the world, the access for everyone to school with the wonderful idea of having the same chances to succeed in our lives.
Even if it's a dream really difficult to join, we constat that school is compulsory for all the children living in France.

We know there are so much inequalities because of the social origins, because of the place of the schools, because of the different qualities of the teachers... But the French State has made a great system, really efficient with helps for Poors or for schools in Cities in difficulties, they invest more than in other places to create equalities.

Furthermore, we can see that every years, more and more young students obtain their baccalaureat, and integrate Faculties and other advanced studies. It's sure we've got progress to make, but I think we're a model for the entire world, because we try to give the same chances to everyone and it's beautiful.

The fact of learning other languages is essential for me! Why? Because we need to speak many languages because we are living in a globalized world, where we travel, where we trade, and where we exchange to the speed of the light. If you do not apply these rules, you will be directly out of the game!
After if you want to stay in France, and to work only for your country it's your choice, but it can become a big handicap...

This was my little point of view really synthesized.

Good Sunday John.

Jordan

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Aurélie Leclerc on Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:35 pm

About English classes it is true that we are really weak and our accent is really awful. Even if other countries may think it is sexy, I really don't think so...
I went to English classes in a Czech high school : every thing is in English. The teacher speaks always in English and so do the students. Some of the Czech I met told me that they feel they are good in English for that reason. Some others told me that they felt so much pressure so now they don't dare to talk... I think in France we learn that we don't have to do mistakes so by fear to do some, we forbid ourself to try. Perhaps, at the begining, teachers should help us feeling confident about this new language.

About french school, my two parents are teachers and over the years I noticed how difficult is it to have innovative ideas because there is not so much hours and monney... But, for me, the most revolting thing is that the National Education do not fire wrong teachers ! even if they lead their students to fail the bac, they will stay in high school teaching. And for the good ones, they will not be reward so they may loose their motivation... No surprise if our classes could be boring...
I think the govermnent should put in place an effective way to score teachers : if they are not good, penalize them and if they are very good, reward them... Like we would do in a company. I am sure that could be a way to have better students then.
I am only speaking about high school or french college, it is different in university I think. I guess teacher are more free, I am wrong John ? I think it is better to teach in university also because most of the students are more motivated or if they are not you are not their mummy as in high school... I guess :-)

About the system in general I completely agree with Jordan : it is so valuable that we can study without paying high fees ! I can't imagine myself borrow to the bank as American students do !

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Admin on Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:33 pm

Aurélie Leclerc wrote: I guess teacher are more free, I am wrong John ?

Not really.

Some are told to follow a very strict programme, some do as they think best and face the consequences, others justify their own method and programme.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Naima Sais on Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:20 pm

I don't really have an point of view about French educational system but in my experience I know that studies was and is still a way to learn things that I never could learn by myself. During my travel and my experience as aupair in Germany I was in a family and I helped children to do their homework and I saw that the way to learn is different. But as Jordan said we are lucky in France to have the possibility to learn and study. The access of school is free for everyone. Even if they are private schools.
But If I had to judge this system I would say that in the ZEP (zone d´education prioritaire) the government try to improve the condition of those school but the number of school child who do not continue is impressive. I know that school do what they can but it's too bad..

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Amandinelau on Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:11 am

Hello !
In my opinion, the french educational system is a good system, not perfect but good. I think it's a good system because a lot of pupils can have a chance. We are lucky to have the opportunity to learn with good conditions. Obviously, there are problems but for once, let's be happy with what we have.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Naima Sais on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:01 pm

Yes amandine I agree as I said we are lucky because we can learn I mean everyone but about the way to learn it is more based on system of marks and its perhaps not the better way to encourage student to learn and work.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Florian MICHEL on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:47 pm

Amandinelau wrote:Hello !
In my opinion, the french educational system is a good system, not perfect but good. I think it's a good system because a lot of pupils can have a chance. We are lucky to have the opportunity to learn with good conditions. Obviously, there are problems but for once, let's be happy with what we have.

I agree with Amandine about the fern educational system bu I want to indicate a point. In France, in your scolarity, if you choose an educational course, you have to follow all the courses of it. In my opinion, the english system is better because you can choose your courses. In that point, every student will be different at the end and you are not like a sheep at the middle of others. You can choose what you like to do and forget what you doesn't like. It may be a better way to specialize yourself.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Anaël Maublanc on Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:01 pm

Florian Michel wrote:the english system is better because you can choose your courses

Yes absolutely Florian, it is a negative point of the French Education system, because on one hand we have to be different than others, we have to give an added values in our CV but on the other hand, we have the same courses... And when we can choose our courses, we work better because it's s our choice and not the university's choice.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by audreyl on Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:12 pm

I think, the French Education system is more generally.
France system has excellent teachers, some are even exceptional. Nevertheless, what jumps in the eyes of any foreign countries being interested in the educational questions in this country, it is the pressure to which young people are submitted by a merciless and sometimes humiliating culture in which is absent any notion of individual motivation. A culture of the excellence, certainly, but which pushes as well the most weakest pupils rather than it helps them to take out there.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Jamel O on Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:02 pm

Never substitute or aided a professor by a computer !! And i will explain for what !

First , Steve jobs himself said about iPad and his childrens : " They haven’t used it. We limit how much technology our kids use at home.”
( http://nextshark.com/why-steve-jobs-didnt-let-his-kids-use-ipads-and-why-you-shouldnt-either/#rmns)

Indeed, Children needs to write, to read a book , even doing silly things because he learns by doing this and with an iPad, they learn nothing!

In Paris , we have a school for rich people called "Cours Hattemer" and you know what ? They use methods of 50's to learn to children how write, read and more with just a chalk and a blackboard, not an iPad.

Result, 100% success in Baccalaureate and perfectly bilingual children !

I think the French government made a huge mistake by offering ipad children or installing digital boards while the children of ministers themselves, using blackboards in Private schools ! It is insane !

They know the dangers of new technologies but they think that we are stupid people !

Well, if you want more informations , go to http://hattemer.fr/







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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Gaëlle on Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:32 pm

French educational system is kind of messy like if you are in a private school, good luck to go back in a public school... This is really annoying ! But I'm glad we don't have to pay that much to study in university which ins't the case in England or in the US.

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Admin on Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:16 pm

We'll talk about English university fees next year if you want.

They are loans which don't have to be paid back until you earn a certain amount of salary. For example if you never earn more than £25k you never have to pay a penny for education. It seems quite fair to me.If you earn more because of your education then why not pay it back for someone else to get an education?

newspaper article
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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Gaëlle on Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:45 pm

Admin wrote:We'll talk about English university fees next year if you want.

They are loans which don't have to be paid back until you earn a certain amount of salary. For example if you never earn more than £25k you never have to pay a penny for education. It seems quite fair to me.If you earn more because of your education then why not pay it back for someone else to get an education?

newspaper article

It's an interesting paper I agree, but I'm to tired to give my opinion on it tonight ^^

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Re: The Fourth topic

Post by Baptiste Hibon on Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:52 pm

The french education system is not perfect, but really good. It's for all and "free of charges". In fact, we know that there are good college and bad college, and some of this college make a selection. But it's not so bad, every pupils/students have a change to succeed and private colleges are not always better. The system of marks is questionable but I think we have to make a evaluation so..

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