Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

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Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Admin on Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:10 am

The second discussion is about guns and the shootings over the last few decades in the U.S. You can about the root of the problem, possible solutions, the differencies and similarities of different mass shootings; you can compare that with gun use in France or England or China or Vietnam etc... You could discuss what this says about Americans or talk about the stance of Obama/Clinton. Whatever you want...
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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Louis Nicolas on Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:11 am

The problem clearly is the lack of regulations regarding guns.

A useful comparison is with Australia. Before 1996 they had no gun regulation, not even background checks. They'd had 13 mass shootings in 18 years. And a lot of people were scared that gun laws would make government too powerful and would prevent innocent people from defending themselves. The situation was very similar to the american situation. In 1996 a gunman killed 35 people. The conservative (right wing) government decided to implement heavy regulations regarding guns. The law passed but not without controversy. The prime minister and every right-wing politician who helped the bill pass lost their seat in the next elections. But the solution was effective: they didn't have a single mass shooting ever since.

Republicans are in control of the White House, the Senate and the Congress, so if anyone can make a change to prevent mass shootings like the one in Vegas this weekend, it's them. It would take courage from Republicans. The NRA is a strong political force, they actively suppress research on gun violence, they are really good at making sure their voice is the loudest in the room. Whoever proposes or helps such a law to pass would lose their seat. But courage is the least we can ask from a president who claimed to be the president of change, the one who would change what's wrong with Washington.

But instead of doing that, the day after the deadliest mass shooting in American History, they passed a law deregulating guns even further.

So yea basically America is fucked

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Vincent Hyvernaud on Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:16 am

Hello everybody,

For me , the problem in America is the lack of laws abouts weapons. When Barack Obama try to pass some regulation for the weapons he failed because the weapons lobby (NRA) is powerful, and in the US constitution, is written the right to possess a weapon legally. Touching this right is touching the US constitution for most american people.

PS : In Texas , a blind person can buy a weapon whitout problems , find the problem.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Admin on Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:19 am

Vincent Hyvernaud wrote:Hello everybody,


PS : In Texas , a blind person  can buy a weapon whitout problems , find the problem.

Don't you think blind people need to defend themselves? Do you believe in discrimination against people with visual disabilities?
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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Vincent Hyvernaud on Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:11 pm

You're Right, I think a blind person with an automatic m16 is safe for him and his family Smile

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Arnaud H on Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:44 pm

Hi,

I think that we almost all agree that the U.S. need more regulation on firearms. The number of facts to describe this careless policy is unbelievable. I recommend you this article of Vox, which decrypts a lot of data about it : vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts (you can only copy and paste because I don't have the right yet to put a complete link Sad  )

Moreover, the NRA lobby corrupts more than the half of American politicians (49 Senators on 100 and 258 Members on 435). This issue must be debated with intelligence and not with bills and advertisements.

Admin wrote: Don't you think blind people need to defend themselves?
To answer with good references, they can't aim someone that they "feel", like with the Force in Star Wars. The risk assessment is rather random too.
Kiss

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by CHARLES Denis on Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:04 pm

Hi,
To understand that issue, we can't think with our french "relation" with weapons. We must know that the right to bear arm is the 2nd amendment of the american constitution. So it really matters for a lot of americans. For example in the US, the security of neigbourhoods is made by the police but also by the population to.

If you want to understand the relation between americans and guns you can watch the movie Bowling for Colombine by Michael Moore. It's scary (and a little bit laughable in certain moments...). You will learn that in some bank, you can open an account and have as a gift a weapon...or the fact that there is pink rifles for children...(guns are a market too).

Also, the Nation Rifle Association (that is to say the gun lobby) is very powerful in the country.
The problem is not the same in all states : some of them allow to have a gun everywhere, and others only at home.
Many american presidents try to fix this issue but without success (recently Obama tried but he havn't done very much because of a Republican Congress).

So the USA do have a problem with guns (according to the United Nation a French is 50 times less likely to be shot dead than an american...) but it seems really hard to change mentality on this topic.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Agathe NEGRONI on Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:54 pm

Hi everyone,

As it has been said above, we can’t understand the deep Americans commitment to weapons as a French. There are many reasons to that : first, the weapon is a cultural object in the US : it is a part of their identity and goes back to the West Conquest, it used to be a symbol of emancipation and territorial development at that time. The possession of a firearm is also a right of the American Constitution with the 2nd Amendment, which has always been strongly defended by the Republicans. The NRA is very powerful too and has more than 5 million members…

But for me, the most important problem is that the public opinion is divided : mass shootings consolidate the pro-guns convictions, who think they need more guns and not less to avoid these tragedies, and others have been claiming gun regulations for years…

Just think about the attack of the Bataclan, when Donald Trump said that it wouldn’t have occured if French were armed : that says a lot about what Americans think and it will take a long time to change mentalities. Even the guns market is increasing after the last tragedy…

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Admin on Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:38 am

In England police don't carry guns - only special units who need to be called if necessary.
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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Mathilda Joyeux on Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:48 pm

Hello everyone,
We all know that guns in the USA are a problem because of the lack of regulations regarding them. Obama, and other presidents before, tried to do something about it but failed because of the powerful influence of the NRA.
And as Agathe said, we can't understand Americans as French people. It's in their culture, and it's a symbol of self-defense for them. But, they are facing a dilemma : ok you're protecting yourself and your family against attacks or whatever you want, but you can also be shot on a street for any reason or assist shootings in festivals ...

I don't agree with this pro-guns who think that if more Americans can carry guns, they will have less shootings. You don't extinguish fire with fire. Regulation is necessary to avoid shootings like this one in Las Vegas recently or this one in December 2012 in a elementary school in Connecticut. We can't remove the right to carry weapons in the USA, it's like trying to take away the right to protest in France.
They have to do something about it, and it's not with the help of Donald Trump who pass a law of deregulation about weapons and also assist to the deadliest mass shooting that America never knows before ...

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by kamel khedim on Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:45 pm

Hello guys,

It seems that this question on guns carrying is more deep than a cultural or a constitutional debate.
I think that behind it, there is a behavior of fear in American's heart and a problem of trust between people in USA. Even if, it is understable with the events last years.
But the use of weapons doesn't calm the situation and create scale of violence.
American society should grow up in particular in contentious relationships by more dialogue.
Thus, it can find the inner peace !

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Laila Mejnoun on Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:31 pm

Hi everyone !
The pro-guns are systematically use the second amendment to justify the use of firearms and the violence. For them, the people need to own an automatic weapon to protect themselves.
Even people with mental illness are allowed to obtain a very dangerous gun in the United States.
I think that the NRA is playing role in those tragedies. The NRA has lobbied heavily against all forms of gun control and argued aggressively that more guns make the country safer.
I found a website which count all the mass shootings in the US and we can see that everyday, there is a mass shooting.
Without a gun control, nothing is going to change in this country.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Rosh LOUKOU on Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:24 am

Yes actually guns took very great importance in society nowadays. I have several positions concerning Guns extension and arms proliferation.

My first position concern : games
I object and reject games on wars and how to use firearm because according to me that provoke to sensible users or gamers the desire to destroy all that can they see and too make them war machin such as Charleston Church Killer.

Second Position concerning : International Organization
Their aim is to bring peace in the world. Since, their birth in 1945. They continue use their veto law right for limited wars and arms using but without good results. Because consequence in apply are very sad.

Third Position : Country
We have as example world war. Using arms had lead to human extinction in more countries. Numbers given about world dead has been masked according to me for exemple Indochine and Vietnam War . Why so trouble from power countries ?
Today, it's very simple for them to menace between. But don't analyze the consequences. Surely there's others manner to develop security in a territory according to me. System "lives in their hands" Rolling Eyes .

So, in conclusion , Arms lead to the sad life moments, empeach good moments with people, and distant potential peace in the world

Excuse me if I shock everyone and excuse me for my not clean English Very Happy
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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Valentin Poucineau on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:55 am

Its difficult to compare the problems related to gunes in the US and in other countries, France for example, because its not the same culture.
Despite many tragedies in the US in recent years, no solution has been found.
There's a lot of weapons in circulation in this country and its a tradition.The right to bear weapons for protection facilitates this phenomenous, therefore, find some solutions is not easy.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Céline Métais on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:27 pm

Hi!
In America, the population is allowed to own firearms to defend itself. But with the recent events in Vegas, debate has been reopened : is it necessary to forbid firearms ?
I think that guns belong to the American culture and forbidding them is just impossible. But the laws are different for every state and we maybe need to change them. For example, it’s important to do psychological test in order to know if the person is able to own a gun and don’t give it to anybody unconditionally.
In addition, even if there are many requirements to have a gun, it’s easier for the population to get one in the USA compared to other countries and this easy way to own a gun is the major problem in this country because everybody can buy one, including criminal.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Lauralee G on Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:32 pm

Hello,
I agree with you that it is difficult to give an opinion on the situation of arms because in France it isn't the same culture as in the United States.
Therefore, you would have to be an American citizen in order to be able to express yourself on the subject.
Each state has its own weapons laws, and decides whether it is necessary to have a license to wear and use one. Good to know too, every state is sovereign to recognize the permits of other states.
Already in one country the laws are different, one can not have a weapon in any state.
I think there should be more regulation of weapons. But this is difficult because it is rooted in their culture and customs.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Omer C Karadag on Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:59 pm

hi,
I think that, fifty years later we will have the same debate, if you need some regulations about the guns in US. As mentionned above, everybody can buy a gun ( even a blind person) and the impact of the NRA to propagate guns is very significant.
Thus, nowadays we don't have any changes about this situation and we need to be prepared for new mass shootings.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Kevin Paquet on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:08 am

Hi,

Since the birth of United States of America, guns have been a part of Americans daily life. The Constitution authorize people to have weapons. That's why it's impossible to regulate the circulation of weapons in the US. Moreover lot of lobbies (like the NRA) influence politicians to continue to sold guns.
Barack Obama tried to limit the circulation of weapons but he failed for these two reasons.. Even mass shooting don't resolve the problem (it seems Americans didn't learn by one's mistakes..).

I don't think video games are responsible for mass shooting. It's just a problem of education (I played GTA when I'm young but I never killed anybody !). In the same way artists like Marylin Manson (known as the "Anti-Christ Superstar") cannot be responsible for mass shooting (Columbine in 1999 especially). If you aren't able to distinguish between dream and reality, go heal yourself.


Last edited by Kevin Paquet on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Elise Maret on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:26 am

Hi,
It was the worst attack of the USA in Las Vegas but I think mentalities will not change.
Most of americans think there should be even more weapons for their defense but it may but it would make even more death.
Numbers about firearms are worrying but with the Congress and the NRA, it will be difficult to change laws.
Americans would have the feeling of an infringement of their freedom.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Mai Huyen on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:53 pm

Hi,
Whenever a mass shooting occurs, supporters of gun rights often argue that it’s inappropriate to bring up political debates about gun control in the aftermath of a tragedy. We can deny that States with more guns have more gun deaths. About 40% of Americans say they own a gun or live in a household with one, according to a 2017 survey, and the rate of murder or manslaughter by firearm is the highest in the developed world. There were more than 11,000 deaths as a result of murder or manslaughter involving a firearm in 2016. (According to BBC News).
Solution:
- Many American can spread the basic knowledge about how to use the gun in any case for the people so we will reduce the gun casualties.
- After numerous shootings have occurred, the US government should issue binding orders to buyers and keep guns to reestablish social order.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Arthur Lombard on Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:42 pm

Hi,

First of all, I think allowing weapons for everyone is a mistake. I know its in the american culture since long ago, but I can't imagine how they can still allow this in 2017. Especially when you see all the shootings they had since decades. Every time there is a shooting in the US, the opinion is shocked and many Americans are criticizing the weapons system in their country. But they never try to stop this system !!! I wonder when they will start to say "oh no, if we have so many shooting in our country, it's because we give weapons to everyone ! So perhaps we should stop the weapon commerce to avoid shootings ?"... But no, they prefer (at least politicians prefer) let NRA decide for them. When you see horrible shootings like L.A recently, or the shooting of Columbia in 1999, perhaps someone can decide to stop... And this is not politician which will decide to stop this, we can take Obama for example, when he became president, he was against (at least not really supportive) the use of weapons, but in 8 years, he did nothing.

And personaly, I dont think this is a question of regulation. Why do they allow people to carry guns ? Even if they have a license ? I hate weapons, and I think it shouldn't be allowed in any country.

I dont really know if there is a solution for the guns problems in the USA. I mean, if even shootings can't change Americans mind, I don't know what will do. And meanwhile, NRA take profit of this.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Emma on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:38 pm

As far as I am concern the policy authorizing guns circulation and using in the US should be void because it offers to people to express they hate for another race/religion/community through violent act and mass murders that haven't ceased to occur in American for several decades now..

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Mahamoud Abdoulkarim on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:40 pm

Hi,
I refuse to say that this is a sign of a sick socity, an individual act of stupidity doesn't means in anyway that a whole society has to suffer the consequences. A society is created by the diversity of people for exemple in US society we have a mix of different culture (muslim, athist, christians...) we can use the same way of thinking for the conflicts in the middle east (a bad persons doesn't reflect the reality of a community ). In other countries the use of gumsby civilians is strietly prohibited and may result in big consequences. Police shoud always be armed in my opinion, the police is a law enforcement authority, without proper means they aren't helpfull, they should always carry a guns to stop assaults...

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by Céline Mille on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:53 pm

Hi everybody !
Even if, in some States, we can own a gun only to defend themselves, some people don’t use that only to defense. I think it’s dangerous for the population who lives in the States where guns are authorized because disturbed persons can use guns for various reasons not acceptable. Concerning the last attack in the USA, I think it’s not really due to the right to own a gun. It’s another problem: Islamic State. And we can’t stop those shootings by prohibiting the right to own a gun. In the other countries where guns are banned, there is shootings too.

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Re: Week 2 Shootings in the U.S. / Guns

Post by FLEURENTIN Jealex on Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:36 pm

Hi everybody!

I remember TRUMP wanted all persons has a gun for the self-defence but there are some advantages and disadvantages:
Advantage: you can defend yourself , your family or somebody but if you use the gun you assume your act and you must to know the responsibility and avoid the shooting also the manifestation
Disadvantages: meet somebody not respect the condition for have a gun and play with this and put in danger some life
For me the weapons should be used just by the military and the citizen used him fist.

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