Group 1 First discussion topic

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Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Admin on Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:41 pm

Group 1 are the group that had class second today Suspect

As we agreed ( Twisted Evil ) the subject for your debate is Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité. we have none. How far do you agree with this statement? Give your opinion and read and comment on the opinions of others. Don't leave it until the last day.
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Meghane Cren on Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:00 pm

From my point of view, at present, we are freer than equal or related to each other. France is divided at the moment. But, in my opinion, we are free to act and live, we have the opportunity to make our own decisions.
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by ELISANGELA on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:42 pm

Really three beautiful and strong words.

"Liberty"? We can't even fart without being caught by cameras or any device the government has set up to "take care" of all of us. So, nope! Not at all!

As a foreign, I may so far agree partially with "Equality" since, in theory, I have all the rights as a French citizen. I just can't be sure if all my rights are going to be respected once I am here less than a month.  

And for the last but not least "Fraternity" is a bit close to the sense of family and it's going to take time to completely fit in. I have seen plenty of comments about a guy who was living in France illegally, until the day he climbed a building to save a French child. After that, the President rewarded him with a French nationality. He has been living here for years, dedicating his life and working for this Country, and even after this heroic act, a lot of people has asked him to go back to his County. So where the "Fraternity" is in fact? Maybe it is on you and me o be more welcoming.

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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Cédric Bourgeois on Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:33 am

ELISANGELA wrote:Really three beautiful and strong words.

"Liberty"? We can't even fart without being caught by cameras or any device the government has set up to "take care" of all of us. So, nope! Not at all!

As a foreign, I may so far agree partially with "Equality" since, in theory, I have all the rights as a French citizen. I just can't be sure if all my rights are going to be respected once I am here less than a month.  

And for the last but not least "Fraternity" is a bit close to the sense of family and it's going to take time to completely fit in. I have seen plenty of comments about a guy who was living in France illegally, until the day he climbed a building to save a French child. After that, the President rewarded him with a French nationality. He has been living here for years, dedicating his life and working for this Country, and even after this heroic act, a lot of people has asked him to go back to his County. So where the "Fraternity" is in fact? Maybe it is on you and me o be more welcoming.

I think that we can't reduce the word "Liberty" only about the cameras in the street, in France we are a country with a lot of liberty. We are free to study, choose our political parties, our journalists are also free to criticize the government etc..
If you go in some other country like China/Russia the liberty is really reduced. For example in Russia Alexeï Navalny a leader of the political opposition was arrested for a protest against Putin ( theguardian.com/world/2018/may/05/russian-police-arrest-more-than-200-anti-putin-protesters-siberia ). In France we can do that, we can go in the street and protest against something which is bad for our !
So, for me we can't you can reduce the word "liberty" only with "We have camera in the street so we don't have liberty". I think that the camera in the street and the other spies devices is not really a problem for our if we are clean and respect the laws I don't really care. If the government wants to spy me it will lost a lot of time because I'm just a normal student (ok if a camera look at me when I drive it's over I lost my driving license  affraid )
But the spies devices and camera can be really useful to prevent some terrorism attack, find a criminal, someone who kidnap a child etc...

So about the liberty part, I really think that we are lucky to live in France and have our own choices about our future, and this is also why a lot of peoples in the world wants to live in France.
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Admin on Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:29 am

Thanks for starting the discussion you three. I'll wait before saying anything as you seem to have got the "ball rolling" well.
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Axelle Cantone on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:50 pm

Hi guys. It's my turn to give you my point of view. First of all, I think it's a very complicated subject and there are several possible points of view. In my opinion "Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité" are the symbol of France but it doesn’t represent the true values ​​of the country. Let's start with "liberté", we are indeed free to express or do what we want but if it does not correspond to the values ​​of society, people judge us. About « Equalité » I am afraid I disagree completely. Today, there are still huge differences between men and women both in the workplace and in everyday life. Then « Fraternité » I tend to agree that people tend to be united and supportive of one another, such as buying food for homeless person, helping needy friends or anything else to help others.

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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Léa Aupetit on Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:29 pm

As Cedric said, I think we should be grateful to be living in France. A lot of people would like to move in a safe country where there is a healthcare system approximately working well. It's one of the equality part of the France's policy.
About the fraternity, in my opinion we could do better. We should help each other more. For example people emigrating from war-affected country; in my opinion France (but also other European countries) has to help and welcome them.
To my mind, Liberty is the part the best respected. The law allows us to do what we want (of course when respecting each other rights and liberty) for example gay-marriages or abortion are permitted, unfortunately it's not the case in every other countries.

PS: Sorry my mind is a huge mess when talking about this kind of debate, there is so much things to talk about "Liberté Egalité Fraternité". What a really complicated debate!


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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Damaye Alexis on Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:20 pm

Hello guys
I share the point of view of Cedric and Lea, we are so lucky to live in France. We are free to do what we want in many situations. In some others countries, sometimes it's not the same. Even, the governement is nasty on certains subjects (migrants or poor people for example) I think we have not the right to complain about the liberty in our country. And the equality exists : each people in France has the same rights that his neighboor. For the fraternity that seems more complicated, its look like with the passing time, she disapears a little bit more each day. Today's society is so selfish !

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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Léa ABREU on Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:27 pm

Hi everyone, I don't have that much to add to all of your comments and I am going to join Lea and Cédric, we live in a country where the terms of liberty, equality and fraternity are really significant. We have the chance to go to school for free, women rights are much better than it has ever been, we can walk in the street without the fear of getting killed... And more, we have the right to exchange about this subject... in some countries people are not allowed to speak about their disagreement and can be put in jail for saying it (or worse) !! For me, the problem is that we are not aware of the chance we have !
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Isaure Ayrault-Roy on Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:29 pm

Hello everyone, you said a lot’s of different things very interesting about this complicate subject. First I agree with you, we have a lots of rights in France. This terms is the fondation of our Republic, but daily, it’s not as easy. We can find a lots of exemples that can prouve that these three worlds are not really respected. A lots of debate emerge concerning this, and some questions like « Must « Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité » be changed? » or « This motto no longer corresponds to our country ». In my opinion, the gouvernement try to respect it with some new laws like for the education (for instance the « bourse »), for the employment, the logement… There will always be inequalities, but I think that we are all agree that we are lucky to be French.

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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Jordan Besson on Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:02 am

Hi guys, I am going to present you my point of view regarding the subject : liberty, equality, fraternity, we have non !

I am very divided about this subject for many reasons. Firstly French values are very difficult to define. Indeed, we are not really free because we have to respect duties such as taxes but it allows to build school, to have social security system…

Secondly, French citizens are not equal. To illustrate my point of view, I choose differences between heterosexual couples and homosexual couples. In fact, in France, it is way more complicated to adopt despite Taubira’s law.

Finally, fraternity is difficult to find in France because people are selfish, individual. But when France has good moment (such as the World Cup) or bad moment (Charlie Hebdo), people gather together.

To conclude, I believe in these values even if I am a little bit pessimist. For me, french citizens have to rediscover together independence, generous move and obviously a patriotic impetus.

My friends be enthusiastic about your country.
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Meghane Cren on Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:54 pm

I absolutely agree with Jordan's comments. French is more centered on itself than many of its peers. But thank goodness, many residents are very positive. We must try to do better than our predecessors by recognizing the value of unity.
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Admin on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:19 am

It's true that many "democratic", "Free" western countries (and their populations) are becoming selfish and individualistic. Do these capitalist sentiments really fit in with the idea of democracy - that's another discussion.

I'm also interested to see the idea of Patriotism being synonimised (I'd better check if that's really a word) with "Fraternity". Yes the Football world Cup victory brought many of the French people together but couldn't that be seen as the opposite of Fraternity. More tribalism perhaps. Again maybe that's another discussion.

But if you're bored....
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by farah ayedi on Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:31 pm

Hi guys, you said a lot of things about this interesting subject "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité"
So I am going to share with you my point of view regarding to this subject.

It's true that "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" is the symbol of France but I think it does not reflect really the reality.
Starting with "Liberté", it's true that we are free to live as we want, to choose our political parties also to criticize the government, as a lot of you said, but we are confronted to the judgment of society, so we have always some barriers.
About "Egalité", I think equality does not exist as long as we have different social classes, sexisme and so many other things.
And about "Fraternité", I totally agree with Jordan's opinion, we live in individualistic and egocentric society.
Despite all of this, no one can deny that the situation in France is better than many other countries in the world with many advantages.

To conclude, I think it's the role of frensh citizens to boost this values and to try to do better for their country.
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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Ravahiti on Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:32 pm

hello !


To my mind, freedom a fairly respected in France even if sometimes we are close form the limit. We have the chance to leave freely every day. In terms of equality, I am convicted that we can do better. About fraternity, I can say that we have seen that french people are brotherly and the Football World Cup was a good example of it !

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Re: Group 1 First discussion topic

Post by Marina Di Cocco on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:52 pm

Hi everybody ! I think I'm late but I'm going to tell you my point of view about the subject : liberté, égalité, fraternité. It's the motto of France, it's supposed to represent the values of our country. But I totally agree with Jordan's comment.
Firstly, there is a law, so we have to respect them to live together. But there is some laws that maybe attends to your liberty, for example you don't have right to listening music in your car if it's too loud. It's only my opinion but it's tipically the kind of law that restrict your liberty. Yes of course it's for "our security" but not only...
Secondly, equality. Jordan's comment explain exactly why France not apply equality. Like he says, for homosexual couples but also sex equality that is present again.
Ton conclude, fraternity. If we are all brothers and sisters, we are all equal and we have to help each other but in fact it's not like this. We are in an individualist society, the majority thinks to himself and don't look the misery next to him.
So this motto is beautiful sure, but it's not representative of our country.
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