Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

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Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Caroline Lemoigne on Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:38 pm

Discussion of the week:  Feminism



Hi everyone!

Here is my opinion on the subject:

I would say that we have all heard about this word from our childhood until today. Feminism has always been an important subject as far as I can remember. This word (and movement) has a good intention, but some people become exasperated when they hear it. Maybe because some of them believe that this movement is going too far, that we are talking about it to much. Yes, maybe, but it’s important.

Some people don’t understand that this fight has a meaning. I use the word “fight” because equality between men and women is not easy to obtain. You can’t say that wrong because if it were the case, we will not talk about it still today.

I believe that some men (and even women) don’t understand or don’t try to understand why this gender equality is important for us: women. I think it’s because the society has always been this way (“dominated” by men), so it seems “normal” to them that men are above women. But if you make them think in another way, maybe they will understand. If the world was “dominated” by women don’t you thing that men would act in the same way to be equal ?

Feminism has a simple purpose to explain but hard to reach. How to achieve this equality between men and women ? But more importantly, how to make this equality sustainable ?

I think it would be necessary to change people mentality, but its difficult.


What do you think ?

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Admin on Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:16 pm

One of the M2 students chose an article for us to read this week which I think relates well to this discussion. It's a very long article so I don't expect you to read it https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/26/the-fragility-of-feminist-progress-and-why-rage-is-a-luxury-we-cant-afford
in summary it talks about how some men are not interested in equality and in fact will use the idea of feminism to hurt the feminist ideology and women in general, even going so far as to make out that men are the victims in a feminist struggle. I guess it just shows that men still have the power and women are unlikely to get anything other than a fake equality. #himtoo
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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Amelie Trarieux on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Hi everyone, so here’s my opinion about feminism.
So far I completely agree with Caroline on the fact that yes, it’s a fight, far from being over that we’re taking one step at a time.
The definition of feminism is clear « the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. » Contrary to what some people want to make you think, it’s not about women being over men or whatever, it’s about equality. I insist on this fact as it’s very important to me, I consider myself a feminist and I’m not here to have « revenge » against men, I’m not here to do to them what they do/did to women in the past (and unfortunately still today).
To me, it’s about education. I educate myself on what’s right, and what’s wrong, on what’s going on in the world today, from the small successes (like more women elected to Congress in the USA) to what’s still wrong, like harassment, or how much women are paid. Indeed, from Tuesday the 6th of November 2018 at 15:35, women « work for free ». So I try my best to educate myself, but I also try to educate people around me, friends or family. Because feminism is not a bad word, it’s a movement that we should all be part of, it’s humanism. And yes, it’s a spectrum, we all interpret it differently, act as we can. Some are « extreme » and I won’t give my opinion on that.
So today, many actions are taken, and you might think that some are useless, that you’re no part of it, but if one of your friends does a sexist joke or a degrading comment on another human being, you shouldn’t laugh. You should tell them « hey, that’s not ok. It seems funny but as long as the problem is still so real we shouldn’t joke about it ». And yes, even I sometimes catch myself doing the jokes or laughing but less and less everyday, because I took a step back and realized it’s not ok. You shouldn’t start acting only when it touches you personally, or when someone in your surroundings tells you it happened to them. Because what you don’t know is that this kind of sexist jokes, the harassment, rape, abused, rape drugs, it probably happened to someone you know. They just didn’t tell you. And yes they’re here and very uncomfortable when they hear your comments, or maybe they laugh but inside it’s killing them. 
Sorry, it got a bit dark, but that’s a reality and it shouldn’t be taken lightly, it’s no joke and it’s a fight we have to be in together, as human beings.

And John, I’ve actually read part of this article already, it’s really interesting (and long), still trying to get at the end of it.
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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Manon Saroul on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:34 pm

What about feminism ?

Feminism is a serious subject. I think that even before naming this movement, it existed.
I think the definition of this term is floppy because the signification may be different depending on the people.

Some stars are known for their feminist speeches like the pretty natalie portman or Emma Watson with her speech for the campaign "he for she". But feminism has existed for a long time. Indeed, women fought very early for the sexual equality: to have the right to wear trousers (i just can't realize that it's not a joke, women hadn't the right to wear trousers in the past...!) , to have the right to vote ... And even things seems to be changing... Inequalities persist !

I've seen a very interesting documentary about difference in salary and professional career between men and woman. And sorry to say that but ... Inequalities are far from missing ...! it's disgusting and whatever you say, for me these differences can't be justified !

I also think that we must not fall into the extreme, men have predispositions for certain things as we have for others. This complementarity can sometimes be interesting. However, we don't have to accept that for equal work we don't have the same level of pay, of course ! And I’m a little desesparated that we have to say that still today.

For me, the true transformation will appear when feminism will disappear because if there is feminism, there is claim and therefore inequality.

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Clothilde Pluchart on Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:34 pm

Hi everyone,

So this week is the subject of feminism, fine. I think that, as we all know and as I have seen in your publications, the fight for women's equality continues and is not over.

For my part, I feel feminist, but I admit that I don't do much to defend this cause. Why? That's a shame, but I think this cause will never be a success. Yes, there will be evolutions but unfortunately I may be a little defeatist but I have the impression that we will never be able to have the equality we should have. For example, equal pay, everyone knows that, but no one is doing anything and that will not change any time soon. You still have to know that you have the same skills and qualifications as men. But no, we have the right to work for free. All this because we're a woman.

There has always been injustice between men and women, but men also have fewer disadvantages than us. For example, men have to pay to enter nightclubs while for women in general it is free. Is this also normal? No.

I think that we should put in place a real equality between men and women and work on the different variables, which means that this is not the case.

But when will this happen? That is the question and I think it will take some time before we can answer it.

I wish you a good weekend.

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Pauline Maurisset on Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:18 pm

Hi everyone !

I think that most of you will disagree with me but I have to say that feminism is a thing that makes me a little bit angry sometimes.
Of course, it is important to defend our cause, it is important to affirm our girl power, but, in some cases, it is just TOO MUCH.

Feminism is becoming an obsession. For me, it is even like a new trend, like "you are a cool girl because you are feminist" NO !
I have the impression that a lot of girl don't know anything about women rights and are feminist just to follow the others, they are feminist just in appearance.

Moreover, what happened yesterday in Paris with the Femen's that tried to manifest showing their boobs in the city is just unacceptable. The goal of the weekend was to celebrate our nation through the centenary of the First World War --> what are the women doing here ??

So, you have understood, I'm a little bit pissed of feminism.
Women can have motivations, goals to reach, and it is important to be listened, but stop being SO extreme.

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Marina Guillon on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:42 pm

Hi everyone, I hope you are having a good Sunday!! It's my turn to give you my opinion on this complicated subject!

I agree with all your post. Feminism is an actuality subject and some people want to defend equality between men and women and other think that is good now or are tired to talk about that. But I think that Feminism is still an important subject because even if we talk a lot of this subject and maybe too much sometimes, inequality between men and women still exist. France proclaims that it's the country of equality but like Amelie said, from Tuesday the 6th of November 2018, women « work for free ». affraid Can we seriously say that we live in a country of equality? I don't think so. I know that things change and that a lot of evolutions are made for many years, but I think it's unacceptable in 2018, that women are less paid than men for the same job! We all know that but it's still the case! I think it's important to talk about that because it's our future…

Even if mentalities are changing, it takes a long time, too long for me. For example, a woman who doesn't cook well and/or doesn't want to have a baby...it's still weird because it's like her duty, you learn that during your childhood with movies or toys. If a man stays at home to care about children, it is weird too…in fact, we say housewife and no househusband. To be clear, I don't think it's weird, because people have to do what they want, but the problem is that a lot of people still think that is weird in 2018…

Concerning the movement « extreme » I don't accept that, like in any field because violence resolves any problem, it's useless and bad. Evil or Very Mad

To finish my post, I just want to raise the fact that only women have given their opinion on this subject this week … (except you John)

Have a good day!

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by iman ghouzi on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:02 pm

Hii everyone,
i like sooo much the subject of this week.
This subject is not easy at all. Everyone has developed an opinion on this subject automatically according to the information that have arrived to them .
I believe that the greatest part of the population are "informed" about feminism through what is transmitted in television which is a very small information, at times censored or inaccurate. They get the information from internet aswell. Here we find information on any matter and you need a very careful eye to extrapolate and find out the real facts.
I don't like to speak about feminism as something that concerns only women. What concerns women concerns everybody Evil or Very Mad . I want to underline this, because instead I believe that what concerns men always concerns women, but not the contrary Evil or Very Mad .
Then I belive that the feminism, in reality, it is not a movement, but a challenge. It is an obstacles to be overcome for a world where everyone can express himself freely, without distinctions and prejudices.
We are in year 2018 and being woman is still a synonym of inferiority Mad Mad Mad . There is no country in the world in which women are held equal to man. Not even one. (everything the newspaper try to say about equality is ony bullshit).
We can't blame only men, that judges inferior woman, for this inadmissible situation, but also woman themself.
Up to when women will continue not to defend theirselves as representatives of the female sex, we cannot pretend to be judged equal to the man.
Professionally and intellectually we reach equal or even superior levels than man. We are not better, but we have the right to be considered peers.
We must stop to cover our eyes!!!
We have to stop beliving that a women can consider herself realized only if she has children, stop calling a women bitch only because she has skimpy clothes , etc..
I say only that it is really from our domestic walls that take place every day the sexism .
To break the chain is therefore necessary to educate their own children to the respect of women !
And there is no progress until we are not considered as the same level of men.

So that's it i'm sorry if i've been a bit long but as you see is something that really touches me. Smile

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Blong on Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:30 pm

Hi everyone !

I think the movement of feminism is really interesting and this is something really important. Today, there are many inequalities between men and women and everybody should be aware of this. But sometimes I just feel that some people don't understand the meaning of equality and moreover I don't like the term of "feminism". Feminism is part of something bigger which is inequality. Some of them are pushing this movement too far and forget about other inequalities and I totally understand why people are more sensitive to feminism. You can be aware of this but if you consider yourself as a feminist you need to consider yourself as someone who wants to fight against all kinds of inequalities. You don't want be only feminist because to me you are a kind of hypocrite. You need to be aware about many inequalities or discriminations which deal with racism, women-men, people with disabilites, retirees etc.
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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by SALMA FARES on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:03 pm

Hi Everyone,

In recent times, feminism seems to have gained more strength and affirmation in society, also thanks to a wider diffusion through social media and internet. However, there is still confusion in identifying the exact meaning of this word, which is often understood with a negative meaning.
Being feminists means believing that men and women have the same rights and that there is no superiority of gender, neither on one side or the other. It's a considerations that for the most may seem trivial and obvious, but that in reality are not at all, as evidenced every day by the pages of newspapers with news of harassment (and the subsequent movement Time's Up), abuse, and femicide.

Today, female workers aspire to break down the obstacles that in fact still limit their presence among the top management and leadership, in many sectors considered long-term male prerogative. But they also ask and above all to cancel the existing wage gap and break down the barriers that prevent, especially mothers, from re-entering the world of work after maternity, as well as interventions that help to combine work and family, whose lack precludes career opportunities.

I don't like the topic of this week so i don't have any inspiration this is why i haven't write a lot.


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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Admin on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:05 pm

Some of the posts here are a really good read.

Iman, you're on fire!

We all agree that Women and men are not equal and that is wrong.

However, I've been thinking about Blong's post and I think he makes a good point.

The word "Feminism" makes the movement sound anti-male (at least to men). It sounds like this is about women, for women. Whereas the real struggle is for equality (and respect). It's as much about men as women and it really is about all minorities and power.

If the name was "equalists" (no that doesn't sound great but do you get what I'm trying to say?) or simply "equality", then I think that more people - especially men - would become a part of the movement and maybe their could be a bigger, quicker change.

Of course I can't see "men" - as with any power group - giving up their power and I doubt that I'll see true equality before I die, but I really hope that your generation can force a change in the western world. Don't accept inequality. By doing so you re-empower men and restore the status quo.
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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Babis Papageorgiou on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:52 pm

Hello everyone

I don't really have a lot of things to say because the subject is too general. Some of your thoughts covered me more or less.

I believe the movement of feminism in our days in West countries, is so sensitive because people are more educated. I agree that feminism is a trend lately according to its' massive propulsion from the media and unfortunately I see a lot of young people use it without knowing the importance of this word.

I agree with Blong (I can't do differently, we have to support each other because we are 2 in a class full a women and we are speaking for feminism ahah.) Indeed people should be aware of other unbalances in society too, like between social classes and between races.

I agree with everyone who said even today there isn't total equality between the 2 sexes.

Ι whould like also to add that the 20st and the 21st century are really important if we compare them with others. In a lot of countries women made great steps for their equality such as the right to vote and be elected.

I whould like to share with you something that you maybe didn't see. It's α world's map showing the countries and the legalizaton of abortion.
With the blue are the countries that the abortion is legal.


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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Diana Gashi 1 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:56 am

Hi,

I'm sorry but I do not have much to say about this movement even if I am a woman. This word feminism is too powerful, I feel that it's a sect and I don't want to be part of it. I fight for the woman to have a good place in the society and that she has all the rights. The same rights as men, because I know that all the rights we have, many women have fought to have them. So I totally agree with you John when you say it feels like it's an anti-male movement. It should be called otherwise so that men support us in this fight. Equality is fine for me and I think there will be many more people supporting it.
My God, Babis thank you for your world's map !!! When I see this, I am angry because all women around the world must have the choice to abort. We must really fight for it because this choice of abortion is for a better world for all these children who come to the world and that they have a better future.

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by FLEGEAU PAULINE on Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:40 pm

Hi !! I so disapointed... My post was not send when I wrotte this morning !!

I agree with you about many things, we have problem between percption of women and men... Few years ago... I saw a video disturbing... But very interesting ans it's very good for see the other point of view about other sex, because this video it's disturbing much for men or women. This video deal with social view, link below :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpfaza-Mw4I

For an other point of view, more... Actually, women wages !
https://www.facebook.com/Questcequetufaislaura/videos/266970830628468/
This other video is humorous but deal about topic very important.... Because why women have not same wage ?!!

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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

Post by Admin on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:07 pm

FLEGEAU PAULINE wrote:Hi !! I so disapointed... My post was not send when I wrotte this morning !!

I agree with you about many things, we have problem between percption of women and men... Few years ago... I saw a video disturbing... But very interesting ans it's very good for see the other point of view about other sex, because this video it's disturbing much for men or women. This video deal with social view,  link below :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpfaza-Mw4I

For an other point of view, more... Actually, women wages !
https://www.facebook.com/Questcequetufaislaura/videos/266970830628468/
This other video is humorous but deal about topic very important.... Because why women have not same wage ?!!

Yeah , yeah. You were bored in class and wrote this instead of discussing.

I'll check out the videos later.
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Re: Group B Week 5 - Discussion (Feminism)

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