Week 5 discussion

This week I'm interested in your views on the Dominique Strauss-Kahn affair and more generally your feelings on "prostitution" and "Escort Agencies". Should Prostitution be legalised? Should men using prostitutes be more heavily penalised? Could prostitution be seen as a reasonable, even desirable, action in certain situations? Does illegalising it take it underground and cause more problems than it solves? Over to you... (Don't forget that next week 1 group has interviews and the other has a role play to prepare!)

For me, in the case of DSK, Nafissatou Diallo is the maid who took advantage of the situation. I just think she was offering her services during her working hours in order to supplement his income, to support his family ; and the day of the tragedy, she took the opportunity to make it look at her aggression because she knew its prey. Indeed, DSK former head of the International Monetary Fund is not stupid. He knew that it would jeopardize his personal life but especially his professional life. So why would he do that? The presence of the media is now inevitable and I think this woman knew that it would be the deal of the century. But once the media spin tornado, what has happened to this woman who says she was sexually abused by the former director of the IMF? Nafissatou Diallo received the sum of $ 1.5 million. Not a good strategy ? Especially since we know recently that she recently opened a restaurant with this money and she began a new life in New York, in the Bronx. Everyone 's point of view, and that does not excuse the DSK violence on women.
To return to prostitution, I don’t think it should be legalized in France. All women should respect each other, even if their financial situation is bad, it is not becoming prostitute that everything will work out. Escorts should also be punished by the law because women are dying for them, including assaults of customers. Without forget the increase in child prostitution in poor countries. I think at the same time that the French government should deploy more resources to end all such acts "against nature ", as we can see in The Vigerie near Angoulême. It's sad.

My feeling are reserved regarding prostitution and more specifically legalisation of prostitution. On the one hand, Prostitution shouldn’t be considered as a crime because each adult is consenting on this. Moreover, a study estimated that if prostitution was legalized in the United States, the rape rate would decrease by 25%. On the other hand, prostitutes can also be victim of rape, or victim of trafficking in women, if prostitution was legalised. In addition, there is a connection between rape and prostitution: women are compared with objects for men's sexual use and this is how men feel when they are doing rape, that the woman in front of them is not a human being, it is just an object. Prostitution is not a conscious choice, generally women who become prostitutes do that because they are forced by human trafficking. When it is a proper decision from the woman, it is generally because of an extreme poverty. A prostitute can also have serious negative effects like trauma, stress, depression, sexual disease…

Andrea Dworkin, an American feminist said something that well represent prostitution in my point of view: “"Prostitution in and of itself is an abuse of a woman's body. Those of us who say this are accused of being simple-minded. But prostitution is very simple. In prostitution, no woman stays whole. It is impossible to use a human body in the way women's bodies are used in prostitution and to have a whole human being at the end of it. And no woman gets whole again later, after.”

Therefore I think that prostitution should stay illegal because it could cause more problems: women in poverty could be attracted easier in this solution to obtain money and this is not ethic, women are put down and considered as objects and this is absolutely not a normal thing.

I'm pretty mixed on the issue...

In my opinion, prostitution is bad for healthy women. That did not highlight her, it is just very degrading.
Have money with doing this sort of thing, I can not accept it; I think that is it sad and distressing. There are other jobs which they could access.

But I think sometimes some women do not really have a choice, she took refuge in it, it is an easy matter and becomes a vicious circle. This allows them to feed their children who are sometimes left in their country of origin, to send them money. It's easy to judge when we are in good financial situations and when everything is simple for us! I think we can’t have an opinion closed on the issue if we have a heart and should be taken in order to discuss different examples of this. Nobody can generalize about this kind of subject! Some women make a lot of money, others less. It's a little bit like people who sell drugs, its easy money. Even if put in this situation should not be so easy!!
Moreover, sexuality is wide and we all have a different view. I think this, must be done in love and respect.

I think men who do that are either much focused on sex, either it is an experience to try as "man ", for young people is a way to prove things (stupid to me ...). Despite, this is disrespectful and dirty for them, if men don’t want that; there weren’t having this kind of business! They only think about themselves ... It engages many things behind, which we don’t think about. These women feel guilt and disgust. If we take the example of DSK or even footballers, we can see that with the money man loses control and allows everything and anything. And respect for his wife no longer exists? In some cases no...

I'm shared about the repression or not about the prostitution.

On one side, it's degrading for the woman. The prostitutes risk big health problems in each report. They are also an importing link responsible for the fast transmission of the sexually transmitted diseases.
Furthermore, the use of the sex reduces the person to become the property of her customers, and to be reduced to a body without intelligence, can be even without soul. Their bodies being reduced to be the property of others, it means being a slave. The only difference with a slave is that the prostitute is paid for the offered service. It's an infringement on the human dignity.

On the other side, most of the prostitutes don't exercise this job by choice. In France, a large number of them are stranger, they come countries of East or of Africa. They have to feed, find accommodation, they manage as they can to live. They haven't necessary qualifications, money or network to find another employment.
I don't repress the prostitution as long as those who exercise this job make it according to their conditions. Unfortunately, a lot of networks of prostitution control the number of customer, fix price for every service and use violence to the girls. These networks must be abolished and repressed by the State.

I think that the prostitution has to remain illegal. We can't trade the human body. It is unnatural.

I’m not against the prostitution but what bothers me is that practice, on the one hand the stigmatization the prostitutes who are often judged negatively by the company and wrongly because of strong stereotypes. And on the other hand, the violence which face these women who exercise the oldest by the world (in a voluntary or forced way), because I think it’s just because she’s a woman, he pays, he is a man: the man considers quite allowed. It’s a fact women are neither supported (justice, police) nor accompanied (or little, only thanks to about associations), in causes of the prejudices.
It is what takes place at present with the trial of the Carlton, the man (DSK) is quite powerful from part its money and its power (politics, fame) what allows he press on his victim, thus reducing the importance of their testimony and their defense.
In spite of the changes which take place in the company, I do not think that the look which we concern the prostitutes is radically going to change, but we can always hope for an improvement of the situation!

In my opinion, I don’t think prostitution should be legalised and the men using prostitution should be more heavily penalised. Because in human society prostitution is an unethical thing who is contrary to gender equality. Today the human society is a patriarchal society, many times some women often don’t have the right to choose their own lives. Social inequalities will always exist, but we can not increase the gap between each other, so we should forbid prostitution, that will not only protect the rights of women, but also ensure the health of all people, reduce a lot of diseases and sorrows, so on the Earth, the human race will have better quality of life.


Back to the case, this case related to the complex political, a ordinary person like me can’t comment it. Involved in this prostitution case is the end of his political career, this shows that no matter wether he is being framed, or he really engaged in such activities, prostitution is not acceptable by the society. So we have to forbid prostitution.

Seems everyone, so far, is completely against legalisation.

Here are a couple of articles talking about reasons for legalization. What do you think to them:

legalize 1

legalize 2

 
 

I don't feel like talking about DSK's affair, but I can give you my opinion about the legalization of prostitution.

Actually, I'm not sure if it should be legal or not, but I don't think it would be such a bad thing. Of course, I’m talking about prostitution when everybody agrees to do it and is consenting. I don’t know any prostitute, or any guy who uses their services (well, I don’t think I do…), but for some people prostitution isn’t that shocking. Some girls like to do it, they’re not all doing it because they don’t have the choice. Moreover, in my opinion if the prostitution didn’t exist, some men wouldn’t have the possibility to have sexual relations and they would be even more frustrated: in some isolated cases it could even lead to rapes.

To conclude, I don’t think that legalizing the prostitution is a priority, but maybe I'm not against that either.

DSK has made an error whatever really happened in the room with Nafissatou Diallo. He was on his way to become the most important person in France and did something wrong. It’s a bit of shame…

For me prostitution is not a crime, it’s a kind of immoral practice that has always existed. It is said that prostitution is the world’s oldest profession : so it cannot be seen as a crime, otherwise criminals are everywhere !

The thing is that nowadays there are sophisticated networks with criminals who should be punished because they are destroying lives of women.

About legalization, I don’t think it’s useful to talk about it: there are areas known by everyone where prostitution is acting and no one seems to be bothered. So in a way prostitution is already legalized and men are not jailed for having sex with prostitutes.
As long as there are not networks involved in this phenomenon, there is an obvious “laissez-faire”.

I’m divided on prostitution, the world's oldest profession. There are pros and cons.

I’m absolutely against all kind of organized networks or gangs that exploit, assault and kidnap women.
I can’t be completely against that practice and I think clients shouldn’t be heavily penalised or prostitution become illegal because it could trigger so much damage such as the rise of sexual assaults. Personally, I think prostitution should be practised within a legal frame, it should be regulated.

As for Dominique Strauss-Kahn, he is a despicable character and if all allegations about him are true, he should be convicted. However, when it comes to judge somebody as important as DSK, with so much money, it is hard for judges to be impartial…

Trading sex for money is not something new, some would say that it’s “the world’s oldest profession”. But like every commerce today, the sex market has evolved. It has become a billion dollar industry. This gigantic industry includes street prositution, brothels, pornography etc.

Some manage to convince themselves that it is a sexually liberated activity that it defends woman’s right to do what they want with their body. I think it’s important to realize that prositution is a sexualization of power. Sex in prostitution is exclusively defined by the buyer. The most common is men buying women.

Every day many women and children suffer from prositution. The only law able to protect those people, is to prohibit and punish any person who buys sexual services.

I believe very strongly that DSK has abused of his power and deserves to be severely condemned for his actions.

Sorry John but this subject doesn't inspire me a lot... Instead of DSK debate I would prefer to talk about the latest 40th César ceremony. A nearly 3 hours’ ceremony (one of the longest I can remember) hottest by Edouart Baer and presided by Dany Boon, with its own particularities.
First of all, two Yves Saint Laurent movies in comptition… that means necessarily a winner and a loser… Pierre Niney or Gaspard Ulliel? (I had a slight preference and I’m delighted with the result).
Also, we attended Friday night an American twist in the French Academy. As Kristen Stewart became the first American actress to win a César as “Best Supporting Actress” (starring Juliette Binoche assistant in the movie “Sils Maria”).
Another strong point during the ceremony: the several-minute standing ovation for the Honorary César, Sean Penn. And the (maybe too long?) emotionnal speech of Marion Cotillard...
And last but not least, a beautiful surprise for the movie “Timbuktu”, who won 7 awards, included Best Film and Best Director for Abderrahmane Sissako. Tonight, the movie competes for an Oscar in LA in “best foreign-language film” category…
Finally, I can say it was the year of youth, with Adele Haenel – Best Female Actress (26 years old), Pierre Niney – Best Male Actor (25 years old), Louane Emera – Most Promising Actress (18 years old) or Kevin Azais – Most Promising Actor (22 years old). It's notable because those competed next to great and skilled actors as Juliette Binoche, Catherine Deneuve, Romain Duris or Niels Arestrup....

MarineFoucat wrote:Sorry John but this subject doesn't inspire me a lot... Instead of DSK debate I would prefer to talk about the latest 40th César ceremony. A nearly 3 hours’ ceremony (one of the longest I can remember) hottest by Edouart Baer and presided by Dany Boon, with its own particularities.
First of all, two Yves Saint Laurent movies in comptition… that means necessarily a winner and a loser… Pierre Niney or Gaspard Ulliel? (I had a slight preference and I’m delighted with the result).
Also, we attended Friday night an American twist in the French Academy. As Kristen Stewart became the first American actress to win a César as “Best Supporting Actress” (starring Juliette Binoche assistant in the movie “Sils Maria”).
Another strong point during the ceremony: the several-minute standing ovation for the Honorary César, Sean Penn. And the (maybe too long?) emotionnal speech of Marion Cotillard...
And last but not least, a beautiful surprise for the movie “Timbuktu”, who won 7 awards, included Best Film and Best Director for Abderrahmane Sissako. Tonight, the movie competes for an Oscar in LA in “best foreign-language film” category…
Finally, I can say it was the year of youth, with Adele Haenel – Best Female Actress (26 years old), Pierre Niney – Best Male Actor (25 years old), Louane Emera – Most Promising Actress (18 years old) or Kevin Azais – Most Promising Actor (22 years old). It's notable because those competed next to great and skilled actors as Juliette Binoche, Catherine Deneuve, Romain Duris or Niels Arestrup....

Cesars, Oscars! As much corruption as DSK! 25 and 26 year olds as best actors - their lives are downhill from here.

I'm going to speak about Germany which legalized prositution in 2002.

After legalization in Germany, prostitution became a profession like any other. The aim was to improve the status and rights of sex workers by allowing them to apply for unemployment insurance and health coverage. This successful business emerges a turnover of about 15 billion euros per year and is obviously taxed by the state.

The problem is that unfortunately the conditions of prostitutes working don't really evolved. Only 44 prostitutes are officially registered for an estimated 400,000 prostitutes in Germany. Many women from neighboring countries are sequestered and confiscated their passports. In addition, legalization has made the offer increased, so prices are lower. Prostitutes are to do more for less money. Pimps are still as violent and it has become very difficult for the German police to prosecute them, even though the German police now has an unlimited right of entry into and control the brothels.

Prostitution in Germany is still a matter of debate. Politicians have recently agreed on a new bill to better protect prostitutes.

To conclude, legalize prostitution is not a easy job. It doesn't really solve problems in Germany. Indeed, prostitution is a big business which generate lot of money and most of the players in this industry are unfortunately not honest. Prostitutes should be highly protected, and laws has to be really strics.

I don’t know if DSK abused Nafissatou Diallo. We know DSK has a past with different women and has made several infidelities to his wife. In 2011, DSK was probably the politician who had the best chance of becoming president of France. This is only a hypothesis, but it’s possible that knowing his vices, some people wanted to retire him from politics and engaged Nafissatou to make believe a sexual assault. It worked well because since it, he no longer has political and Nafissatou received 1.5 million.

On prostitution, I am not sure legalization is a good option. I think some women need money and in desperation, they turn to this. The world of prostitution is not really a dreamed environment. Between abuse, violence and exploitation, the woman becomes an object than anything else.

Well, I have to admit this topic doesn't inspire me at all. Sorry John !

First of all, according to me, DSK sexual life shouldn't be exposed to the whole world. We just don't care about it ! Besides, we don't know if Diallo's assault was true of it was a plot from the government.

About prostitution, it's the oldest "job" in the world. It won't never disappeared, that's is why brothels should be legalised in France so prostitutes will be protected and will have cares.

Well it's a quite complicated debate. Legalizing prostitution has good and bad sides. On the first hand for the advantages it's important to underline that the prostitutes will work in better conditions with a medical assistance (gynaecologist etc...) and a proper salary, a better protection of the government thanks to laws and an accomodation. On the other hand, we can notice all the bad effects of the legalization in some countries that legalized it as for the Netherlands and Germany : decreasing standard of life, a rise of the children and wormen trafic, the criminal groups own the brothels and the street prostitution has tripled.
Getting around the law is easy so, I'm not pretty sure that it's a good idea.
Concerning DSK, he's the only one to know the truth concerning his affair with Nafissatou Diallo. It's not the first Time that a powerful Man use his statute to get some benefits, and that a poor women pretend to be abused to get money.

Judging is not my job and priority I think that currently France have many other main problems as security, terrorism, unemployment, the economic crisis and among others the conditions of retirement.
It should be better to think about it.

I don't know what can I say. Indead the prostitution is the oldiest job of the world.
According to some women, this job is a choice. They like that, and wouldn't change that. We should make some organisations to give us free protection to avoid deseases and infections. We shouldn't made like if we don't know this problem.

But sometimes, it's an obligation, they are slaves.

I think we just have to make controls and can give legal status to us. And the Sexuality of DSK shouldn't be public. even if everybody knews that he was a big perverse.

In my opinion, the affair DSK was a very shameful one especially for the high rank that Strauss-Khan had at that moment. I think the scandal affected the image of the IMF and that’s why he resigned almost inmediately.
As I see it, prostitution is a questionable activity because it puts the woman’s dignity down. Nevertheless, I think that there are desperate women who find in prostitution an income to survive, but there are others who just want easy money. I can’t imagine what motivates a woman to become an escort, but I guess is not an easy decision.
For exemple, in Peru the pimps are penalized by the law, but not the prostitutes. I think this is a correct mesure because in the end if you are a prostitute you deal with it, but the for the pimps there should be a sanction because they take advantage of women and control a slavery network.
If you ask me if prostitution should be legalized, I really don’t know the answer. On one side, you have sanitary advantages and on the other, the approval of the worl’s oldest profession... This is a society discussion that should debate in a more serious way to resolve this issue.