Groups A and B 7th subject

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Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Admin on Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:44 pm

Education.

What are your views and opinions on the education system here in France? Comparisions to any other systems that you know would be good. Ideas for changes etc... always interesting.

This could be the last discussion.....maybe.
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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Paul NADEAU on Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:53 pm

The French educational system is perfectible I think but today it is criticise by few peoples. Criticise on one hand for this operating and the other hand for this efficiency. In view of level of some people in French but also English (like me for example) or in mathematics we can say that there is a basic problem.
In my point of you, It is not perfectly effective if you compared french education system to the others systems like german. It has however an advantge, compared to others, it is given free of charge to everybody.
In my opinion there is a problem as for the acquisition of the knowledge partially linked to se size of the class (I speak mainly of the primary school). Indeed it is impossible for a children who has difficulties to understand if the professor can’t help him and explain. There is another problem with the length of one year of school for the youngest and for us. I think Young people could have year of school maybe more longer but less condensed. On the contrary, we have 20 hours by week and we could pratically make 2 years in one.
To finish I would like also quote a last problem concerning the lack of information about course choice after secondary school.
And I don’t speak about school at home make by parents.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Benjamin P. on Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:21 pm

Hi,
One of the problems of the education in France is the number of children in classroom. In school and secondary school, most of the classroom have 30-35 children. It can even rise until 38 children to the secondary school . It favors the school leaving. The government did fight against the school leaving one of its priorities. The government wishes to take example on Quebec which organizes every years " days of the school perseverance ". The goal is to show that school leaving is the affair of all : relatives to teachers. In 2017, the objective of the government is to divide by two the number of 140 000 young people who go out of the school system without qualification.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Yannick KITUTILA on Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:56 pm

Education is a right for all. I mean we have to let everyone and no matter way our origins to decide if they need to study, especially when it comes to university.
I think in France we have a good way about this subject because, education is offered to anyone who wants it. We also have some business schools, although expensive, it does not limited people from middle class to get to it. I think we have a very good system in all its forms.
Also, when I look at the Anglo-Saxon system, I think that there is not the same idea in France, for English, education is reserved to some social class, and studies are too expensive. There is no reason for the fact that a country (government) chooses according to some criterias , for choosing people who have the right to study, or to put a condition (loan) allowing to people for study. I think this is totally discriminatory.

The england, Irland, Australias while these countries apply this system, do they have a higher growth than France or Germany?
France and Germany have the same education system and they are the engines of growth in Europe, Also because they education system are best for this century.
Also, I Think that in France we have done what the English are not able to do "quality in quantity".
A pay university can can be good for monitoring of students, but it is also possible in free universities, for example, we have in France Science po, Toulouse School of Economic, Paris Shcool of Economic, ENA, Normal School, Central School, INSAE, Ecole Polytechnique , School of mines, and other good School that.
To recall, the last nobel price in economic is professor at Toulouse School of Economic, which is a public institution.
To finish, I think that the matter way it to let everyone(contries) choose the system witch will be for him best (free or not) because what of Denmark where students are paid to study?
Let people choose to study is the real democracy in my opinion.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Alexandre B on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:11 pm

Hello John,

I think French educational system suffer from several weaknesses. One of them is the number of students in a class. As Ben said most of classroom have 30-35 children and one year there are 40 children in the same class. I think the classroom should be smaller, in order to allow the teacher to be closer to students and help them in mathematics or english, courses where French children are lagging behind compared to other European children.
The second weakness is the teaching of unnecessary courses. For example it's absolutely needless to teach philosophy in scientific or economic baccalaureate. It's a lost of money for France and a lost of time for children ( personal experience : I lost half an hour to listen a philosophy teacher aswer that question : "Do you think the grass is green ?" ).
And this problem of needless courses doesn't stop in university ( for example in our Master there is several needless courses which can be replaced by useful courses like mathematics or have more English, courses which are essential in finance ).
The third problem is the length of a school year. As Paul said, we have to adjust the lengh of a school day according of the age for example have less charged courses of young children with less holidays.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Admin on Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:16 pm

Alexandre B wrote:Hello John,

I think French educational system suffer from several weaknesses. One of them is the number of students in a class. As Ben said most of classroom have 30-35 children and one year there are 40 children in the same class. I think the classroom should be smaller, in order to allow the teacher to be closer to students and help them in mathematics or english, courses where French children are lagging behind compared to other European children.
The second weakness is the teaching of unnecessary courses. For example it's absolutely needless to teach philosophy in scientific or economic baccalaureate. It's a lost of money for France and a lost of time for children ( personal experience : I lost half an hour to listen a philosophy teacher aswer that question : "Do you think the grass is green ?" ).
And this problem of needless courses doesn't stop in university ( for example in our Master there is several needless courses which can be replaced by useful courses like mathematics or have more English, courses which are essential in finance ).
The third problem is the length of a school year. As Paul said, we have to adjust the lengh of a school day according of the age for example have less charged courses of young children with less holidays.

And for University teachers less days with less hours and longer holidays!! bounce
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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by JESUS_is_EVERYWHERE on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:44 am

The education with the spartan method had advantages, we obtained quality warriors and devoted citizens bodies and souls.
" IT'S BETTER TO DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY RATHER THAN TO LIVE FOR ONESELF "

More seriously, the education is large word ! You can make a distinction between the various typical of place where it used such as the family circle, the school, activities out of the school and so on...

And the french system isn't adapted to a multiplicity of this educational notion. For example i heard parents to say : " don't study this lesson, it's useless ! "
Who say it's useless ? what are the consequences ? the children imagine that all can be choosed and justify like it ! Imagine :

So We have lot of teenagers that don't study the history program because they want to be engineer, ok they are so brillant they obtain their 5 th degree and ? We have engineers without culture of their country and worldwide, you cannot speak everytime of your job or you will get burn out !

The system did not evolved simultaneously with our time ! It's too tolerant, the parents have too power. We have a closure of spirit and the too much specialized individuals what returns too difficulties exchanges.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by HOANG Thu Trang on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:46 am

According to my knowledge and practical experiences while studying in France, the French education system has many similarities with Vietnam's education system in teaching and examinations. However, the French education system is more improved. In France, children from 6 to 16 years are required to go to school and the fee is supported by the French government. The french education also has a better orientation for students on what they want to focus on in the future from middle-school. For example, diplomas of the general degree BAC are various, such as Pro BAC, BAC Tech, and BAC general or CAPA dedicated to people who want to study in agriculture. In each major, there are compulsory classes related to the subject and students do not need to take other classes. Therefore, students can focus on their skills without learning unnecessary things. While in Vietnam, until highschool we still have to study 13 different subjects at once. This is what I like the most about the education here. It's like impossible to be a good student when there are too many to learn. So maybe French education is not the best but it has the positive and improving aspects

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Amandine Tiré on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:27 am

French students are more and more middling compared to students in other countries, so the system is not perfect. The practice of doubling is very common in France while it’s rather ineffective for improving academic performances. And the large number of students per class does that:
- Often bad pupils are set side instead of being helped. And even when we try to help them with private tutoring it’s often seen as a penalty, not a chance.
- There is a significant gap between good and bad students, which is difficult to manage for teachers.

Moreover, we also note a discipline problem in classes that sink more students already in difficulty. Deleting teaching jobs is one of the causes of these problems.

I think teachers have an important role in the success of students and the government should try to motivate them (with higher wages, for example). That could have a positive impact on the level of students.

Finally, even if the school is free and open to all that does not mean that all students have the same opportunities to succeed. The social environment is a factor that plays a lot in the success or failure of a student.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Ju Deshais on Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:50 am

hi
All French children have access to free and secular education.
So we can blame the education system for children who can not read or write.
According to recent polls 601,805 young French therefore neither read nor write.
There are also social inequalities in education: The child of a worker has 3.9 times less likely to succeed BAC than a person belonging to a higher social class.
We can clearly see that the education system doesn't work because children arn't equal in education.
The situation is serious, but the main concern is the lack of student motivation.
In France, many children are unfortunately growing up in a difficult family environment even dangerous. The boys suicide rate has tripled in twenty years, that's incredible !!

moreover if we compare France with other countries around the world we see that we cooupe the 22 em up in the overall ranking of skills. In science, mathematics and terms of reading literacy, three economies occupy the podium: Singapore, Shanghai and Hong Kong.
you are wrong ...

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by NDONG DE SOUZA MYRLENE on Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:43 am


HI,
The search for a good education took me to leave my country. The educational system is not as perfect as this but here, everyone has the right to education and can do what he wants as training in terms of its project.

After he must see to what education which it is question?
With my experience I would say that there is a problem at the level of the base in the educational systems that this either in my country or here in France. The means are there but there should be more accentuate on certain points and leave others. (In my case for example Gabon the country of protracted strikes or the fact course with a prof on two, i said UNESCO to declare the year white for this year at what time want the children studied and assimilated ?) that is to say that we are at somewhere deliver to we even which is not necessarily the case here or there is as same of course and a follow up it may not be perfect but it is better than nothing.

Finally, in education also, there is the dialog, here everyone is free to do what he wants and to give ourselves the means to get there because he is aware and there is the means put in place to do this.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by LIU Bingchuan on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:05 pm

Education, there are many side of it we can disscussed about. but i'd like to say that the France eduction system is one of the eduction system in the world that we can give it the credit without any hesitation. because at least in France everyone have access to almost all the education ressources and nearly gratis.
You disscussed about the excessive number of student in one class. 40 or 50 students in one classroom? compare somewhere else, it can be paradise. Even me, i been trought worse. i think you were been exaggerating. one room can't afford 5 or 6 extra students to study?
you talk also about the useless lesson or course. in my point of view, it depends what level of education you are taking about. Primary or Secondary education may need that kind of "useless course". children need to build their own view of world and value by study "useless lesson". But as a economic student, we don't want chemical info or biology thoery by attending economic courses for example. we wish some "useful" knowledge for our futur career.
That's all what i want to say.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Admin on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:17 pm

LIU Bingchuan wrote:
That's all what i want to say.

Phew! Very Happy
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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Tom Jorigne on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:20 pm

Obviously, the french students have important lateness compare to the other developped country in Europe and in the world (language generally and mathematics). I think you are more able me to judge the French education system King john, so I let you make conclusion about that.
However i'm going to speak about the education system in Zimbabwe. I believe, this country use almost the same system like american : The student study the morning and the afternoon is reserve for the pratice of sport (maybe other activity). I love sport, that why this system could be perfect for me. But more and more cr appi
tiObviously, french student have important lateness compare to the other developped country in Europe or in the world (language generally and mathematics). I think you are more abble me to judge the French education system King john, so I let you make conclusion about that.
However i'm going to speak about the education system in Zimbabwe. I beleive, this country use almost the same system like american : The student study the morning and the afternoon is reserve for pratice of sport (maybe other activity). I love sport, that why this system could be perfect for me. But more and more critics appeared in case of length of days (some student who have training the morning before the classroom, so they must begin their day at 6 am). No system is perfect.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Cyriac Barbot on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:21 pm

In my mind, French education system is not efficient at all for different reasons :

Firstly, there are too much hours by week and too much holidays. Children should have fewer hours per week in order to focus on their homework and should have fewer holidays because during these periods, they forget what they have learnt...

To continue, I think that make the exams easier doesn’t help them. Indeed, they don’t have the knowledge to continue their studies.
And of course their are too students in each class. One teacher can't follow them as he wants. So children who have more difficulties are alone while with help, they could have good results.

To finish, I think John Cox have to be the teacher of all teachers. He knows how to teach and he knows that I should have a good mark Very Happy

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Admin on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:25 pm

Cyriac Barbot wrote: he knows that I should have a good mark Very Happy

Is 6 a good mark?
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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Kevin N. on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:37 pm

During my childhood i went through several type of schools , including the french one , and i can honestly say that it's one of the best , at least for the basic education (until University) . They teach so many topics ... but i think the principle of secularism is one of the greatest treazure in French education. Their biggest default is probably the "Baccalaureat", i think it's way to easy . The difference in work between the 3 years in high school and University is way too high.

As of the higher education, the "almost free scholarship"  looks attractive in regards to other countries . But in some topics, France still got some things to learn - ex : hours of english courses( Laughing ) , "Choose your courses" (USA), etc...

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by stephan coutteau on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:59 pm

In my mind education system in France suffer from a lake of proffessional experience
Indeed we are in a system where theory is so far way above pratical : im speaking about my own experience do u think it's normal when u go to univiversity to wait until the fifth year to have ur first experience for the job u want to do in the future ?
But this is worse because in our theoritical courses some of these are useless according to me ( not english of course ^^) so i don t feel what i learn is efficient for my job later
I will add a last point really important : even if teachers proved they had knowledge to pratise this job by passing their competitive exam , for some of them they don t really know how to teach correctly to their students , to make them understand what are they talking about : they don t have a good teaching skills

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Xiangying TONG on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:03 pm

Before judging the education system in France, I want to talk about what education is for me. Education enables human beings to get access to knowledge, skills, values and beliefs. So from this point of view, I would like to say that the education system in France is advanced.
As a foreigner, I don't know very much about the education system here before university, but from what I heard about everybody here no matter rich or poor has the right to go to school and get educated, while in some other countries only rich and powerful people have opportunities to be educated. At this stage the French education system is successful.
As far as I 'am concerned, comparing with universities in USA and in Canada, there is one important weakness in the higher education in France---We have less professional experience than students in these counties. Maybe we are better equipped than them in theoretical knowledge, but working is sometimes different from what we've learnt in school. If universities could offer us more internship, built more relationships with entrepreneurs like what they do in USA, then we could acquire more experiences before graduation. This helps us not only in finding a job later but also understand better what we learn and have a clear career anchor.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Baptiste H. The Fabulous. on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:46 pm

For me, the French education system is pretty good. However, it seems like it’s taking a bad way. For years now, we’re putting schoolchildren in a cocoon. As we can see now, the main idea is to stop punishing children. I’m not talking about punishment in a violent way but, I’m talking about facing the children to frustration. We are currently removing any frustration a kid could face in his early years for some “ethic” reasons I guess (for example suppress the possibility to repeat a year, always put a pretty good mark to not destabilize children… I’m sure, we can find way more such things). The problem with it is that children will not be able to learn from this frustration they will necessarily face in adulthood. In my point of view, it’s almost dangerous. If kids can’t handle failure, and are not able to question themselves about their behavior, it’s going to be a mess.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by LIU Bingchuan on Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:18 pm

Admin wrote:
LIU Bingchuan wrote:
That's all what i want to say.

Phew! Very Happy

I was getting up on the wrong side of the bed

LIU Bingchuan

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Julien R on Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:27 pm

The French system is fine except that discrimination is still very present. We should follow the example of Scandinavian education model. The Finnish system provides each child the same opportunities to learn, regardless of social background, family income or place of residence.

Finnish law allows to every child to get a free individual pedagogical support, but the establishment of this support system is the only responsibility of each teacher. The ambition of the Scandinavian is to combine good results with less inequality all this with in lower classes.

Students must be central as in Finland the whole institution is orienting to them and not vice versa ... In France every student should be taken into account and should be encouraged, promoted and supported throughout its formation.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by Maxence "Starsky" Goumard on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:54 pm

Here I am ! Sorry, completely forgot to do it last week, and as I don't wanna to be penalized for such a mistake, I'm gonna write it down right now. Better late than never..
Problem is I find myself cornered as all the main ideas have already been discussed, what a shame ! In that case I'm gonna speak about money, the financial aspect in education. We're in finance after all !
In my opinion the educational systems of the XXIst century are ruled by money and interests. God help us all, what a shitty world we live in.. !
Indeed no system is perfect, our own has become uneffective and if it was up to me, the french one would be reshaped from A to Z (mainly because of the problems mentionned above), just to see what it does and how it goes. But it will never happen, why ? Because of money - the lack of it, the lack of teachers, of... everything, 6th world economic power, yeah baby - AND POWER (we could talk about teachers' unions to have some fun).
If it was possible to compare our system to the british one, it seems true 99,99% of french people believe it's more expensive to study in England (let's ignore the costs & entry fees in the "Grandes Ecoles" for a few seconds please..), but after hearing & taking a look at what you showed us John, I would say the british way is more pragmatic, you english people always are anyhow.
Moreover according to me, the finnish system seems clearly impossible to apply in France, again because of money. The whole demographic, social, and economical aspects are too different between both our countries.
To sum up, I don't know where we're going but it doesn't smell so good. I'm more than thrilled to have accomplished most of my studies.

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Re: Groups A and B 7th subject

Post by NGUYEN Hao on Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:17 am

France's education system is one of the diverse educational systems and developing in the world. Before I wonder: Why are you young French, they can brave, confident handbags and backpacks travel around the world? That's what I really admired.

After nearly one year in France, I understand that since childhood, the students are equipped with the skills to live through extracurricular courses / physical fitness: course determined direction, swimming, hiking ... the life skills improve in time while learning and they become active youth, confidence in society. That's what I'm extremely interested in learning method here.

However, with an economics student, I think in addition to the basic theory of economics, the school should add some discussion about the current economic situation, so that students can apply what is they have learned into practice and later will be helpful in later career. Laughing

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