Subject 7 - online learning and evaluations

This week I'd like to hear what you think about online learning (and teaching) and also your thoughts on how to evaluate and assess students online.

Online classes lets you customize your work environment way more than in school; you can study barefoot (especially good if you have smelly feet), on your bed, while cooking or cleaning your home.
But you can also get much more distracted at home because you are surrounded by so many stuff, and if your family is around it can be annoying.
I don't really like online class because there is less social interaction with classmate, which means no afterclass meeting, which means no alcohol which leads to sadness and depression. Staying at home can also be redundant especially if you live in a small apartment because you stay in the same room for doing everything : working, eating, relaxing, entertainment… It’s good to diversify your work environment and not everyone can afford that.

In order to evaluate student, Uni can launch a special software that detect if you're cheating during a test... Or just everyone turn on their camera during test to make sure no one cheats.
I think the software "Webex" is not efficient at all.. We should definitely use Discord!! It's the best tool to work with groups and have a more collaborative class. (actually this forum would be PERFECT on discord).
For exemple, today we had to work collectively to return a work before 10 pm, the webex session was still active but it was hard to connect again because the session link disappeared from the Upedago website.

Here's an article praising the benefits of discord :
https://philippines.makesense.org/2020/09/09/teaching-in-a-time-of-discord-discord-as-an-alternative-tool-for-learning/

Thanks . I'll check that out when I have time.

From my point of view the online distance learning courses are not too bad because the teachers have really made an effort to adapt their courses, which is appreciated. However, an online and distance learning course will never replace a real face-to-face course, especially as far as social interaction is concerned. And when you're at home it's sometimes more complicated to stay alert at all times with all the potential distractions around you. So I really hope to return to "normal" courses soon, even if the quality of the online learning remains high overall.

To evaluate the students online I think that speaking is a good way, as we did to present the series in English, as it allows us to make the effort to express ourselves in English in order to progress. And then, when we are forced to speak at least we stay more concentrated on the course!  
Otherwise I think that Upedago's exam software is good because it allows you to ask different types of precise questions with a limited time, like a real exam. However, the problem with this kind of exam is the high risk of cheating, as teachers have difficulty in knowing whether their students are honest or not.

Personaly, my opinion is quite divided.
Because on one side, you can organise your day at home as you want. You can be on your couch, on your desk or even in your bed. And since you are already at home, at the end of the class you have more time to do something else because you save your ride home.
But on the other side there is no interaction in real life anymore. Throughout the day you just in front of your computer with nobody else and you are just listening to the teacher.
There is no discussion anymore during the break. At school, you can take a coffee and chat with your classmates, but at home, if you are living alone there is no one to talk to.
It is also more difficult to stay focused during 3 hours and understand the lesson correctly without human contact with the teacher. Moreover, you can have connection problems, computer reliability can be quite random, and you can lose minutes of class time.
Online courses is a change for me because I am all day long on my computer. At school, I take notes on paper so I don’t have a screen in front of me. So now, I usually get headaches at the end of the day.
Concerning assessment, it is a dilema. Because students can be in a bad environment to do a test and teacher can’t be 100% sure that student won’t cheat.

I think, all the teacher did a great job on teaching online, they try to be as much as they can interesting for students. In my opinion online learning is less fun than be in school, because we don’t have the interaction with the teacher and the students. I don’t really like Online classes because we are all day sitting in front on our computer and listen to the teacher, we don’t interact with the others students, for example on the break. Also, online classes are more difficult, because you are at your home, listening to the teacher, and sometimes you don’t really listen because you think about something else, it’s easier to be distract at home and you can have problem with your connection and miss important information’s But, the only good point of online classes are, that I can stay with my family, and enjoy time with them.
About the evaluation, I think it’s hard to find a good way because teachers are not with us to help us if we don’t understand something and teachers can’t see if students cheat, so maybe create a new way for doing our test.

Personally, I prefer distance class. I really like to see people but I really like the fact that I can organize my time as I want. We earn so much more time with distance class cause we don’t need to move, we can eat when we want, work at noon.
Regarding concentration, in normal times I don’t have so much so it’s not a problem for me and I’m even more focus when I’m alone without noise around me. I work much better when I’m alone than there is people around so it favors me.
Evaluate students online is very hard cause it’s 10 times easier to cheat but I think in any case, someone who did work it will see in his copy. Maybe do more oral evaluation and individual written but all of this ask also more work for teacher.

Online class really makes me feel perplexe. If you don't make your class alive, online class is really complicated. We don't have a lot of classes online to be honest, but we have a lot of work in groups that we have to finished before Christmas and when you are in a rythm of work but you have an online class with no interaction; it really makes me feel that we are not on the same way or planet  . I don't want to be rude but I think i was, and i will not blame the only class in which there is a rythm (Your class of course John), but understand me, when you listen to someone who is just talking and talking again, it's really boring. Even if it is in a real class. I know that is really difficult for some teachers to prepare online classes as physical classes but you know that is really important to make your class alive, especially for online classes. 

This is a link to a payed article which come from Le Monde, you can just read the beginning but it's interesting : https://www.lemonde.fr/campus/article/2020/11/25/quand-le-prof-parle-j-eteins-ma-camera-et-je-fais-ma-vaisselle-les-cours-en-visio-ou-la-tentation-de-la-distraction-permanente_6061000_4401467.html

In this context of coronavirus, online learning is one of the solutions that people have to keep learning and having classes. In one hand, this online learning, can be benefit to those who are serious and keep their motivation and their determination to learn and to succeed. In the other hand, for some people, when they aren’t in a place where they feel the pressure and the atmosphere of work, their mood can be influenced by the environment and so they won’t be focus and be in good conditions to work. The simplest example, home.
For the assessment, well teachers should ask to student to turn on their camera to avoid cheating or find an app who can detect when students are trying to search a response on internet. Or, make all their examens oral presentation, like that they will see if the student prepared well the job and if he’s cheating during his presentation by reading his piece of paper( by just hearing his voice, if he had an intonation like a robot well that’s obvious, but if the student speaks the same way as he read well good luck to find another way ).

I don't know what to think about online classes, at the beginning I wasn't really worried as I was volunteer and motivate but now it's different.
I don't know exactly when but I started to be less and less interested by classes except English class (I'm not lying I swear John   ). I'm sure it's because we were ask to speak every week, maybe some people would have prefer not to but I feel like I have participated more online than in real class but I might not be objective as I really like English.
I'm not telling that is teacher's fault because there is a lot of things to consider, the internet connection, people in your house, phones and the most important the student's motivation. And I agree with Florian that it's kind of boring to just wait listening to someone who is not in front of you, making eyes contact is really important to keeps people attention. Obviously I cannot blame any teacher I'm sure is also difficult for them but if I could give an advice, it would be giving short class, 3 hours it's too long at distance.
According to how evaluate student, it would be really hard to avoid cheating has we have our notes but giving more homework is not the solution at all. I don't have any idea sorry, unless going back to the CEPE ‍�.

Online classes are very different than real classes for various reason. First you can’t see your friends and the teacher which create a distance because you can’t talk to him or her at the end of the class for example. Also, it is harder to concentrate when you watch your screen, for me I had difficulties to focus for three hours watching the power point of the teacher and follow all the word. Sometimes, I was watching me phone or doing something else.
For me the best way to evaluate a subject during the online class should be by dossier or an oral expression but not about the knowledge of the subject.

The class should be shorter to keep the attention of everyone when it is online, and because we didn’t have a lot of classes this end of semester it would have been a good idea.
And maybe create an interactive class with little games to, again, keep the attention of the students.

I share the same points of view of my classmates but for me online classes have more advantages than disadvantages.
First, we are free to organise our work environment and work time like we want. Before the lockdown, I had to leave my home at 8h30am to be on time for the class. And to be ready and have enough time to eat my breakfast, I had to wake up at at least 7am. For me it’s a loss of time that we don’t have with the online classes. We don’t have this problem. I can wake up 10 minutes before the class and be on time, and sometimes being more concentrated than in the usual class, because following the teacher is the first thing of the day that my brain does. But for some people, I can understand that it could be difficult to have a good rhythm of work when you are locked down at home. Especially when you don’t live alone. Everybody in the house doesn't have the same rhythm of life. But when you live with other people you have to adapt your lifestyle to theirs. I absolutely agree with those who said that they don’t like online classes for this reason: our autonomy in the organisation of our work space and time, because the main disadvantage is to stay motivated. When you are at home it’s really easy to be distracted and let the laziness set in. I know what I am talking about… And mixing different activities in the same space, everyday, doesn’t help.

Even if it’s hard to stay motivated with this situation, I think that it’s a good personal challenge that we have to take up. For both sides, teachers and students. And I hope that this experience will be beneficial to life after the lockdown.

About the online evaluation I don’t know how to advise you. You can’t avoid cheats. For students nobody except them can see what they are doing during the test. Unless you asked students to download an anti-cheating software, you can’t avoid the risk of cheating.

Most teachers haven't been taught how to teach online. Most have no idea and the University/Government has told them to do it. I'm not making excuses for boring teaching I'm just stating a fact. I'm sure a trained teacher could make it fantastic.

The problem of student interaction outside sessions seems to be something that the course organisers have not really considered at all and it seems very relevant. How hard can it be to get you together socially online?

Yeah the 3 hour class is rather stupid. Again it's a case of staying in the old style, not adapting to the situation.

Zak suggested oral presentations for all exams. Nice idea but that would need smaller groups with more teachers. theoretically ideal but never going to happen. I think what really needs to happen is a complete re-think of education. The answer is in the word. Education should be about education not about evaluating and assessing. Teachers should educate and not test. Students should learn or not. Then either internships or apprenticeships between education and full time jobs. Too radical? Thought so.

Why can't you speak to teachers after the class? again it's an organisational question. with the M2s on Thursday afternoon we have our talking session and then I stay online for any questions the students have and then I leave my room open for them to discuss between themselves.

As with Salomé I like the fact that I don't have to get up so early or drive for 1h30 to get to class. I like to see my dog during the day I hate the amount of my life I wasted sitting in the car polluting the planet.

Students need to learn how to organise themselves better, perhaps they should be taught that. it's an important life skill. We don't teach enough life skills after Primary school.

A major problem is the inequality of connection and this is a shame that the French government need to correct. Egalité is supposed to be a fundamental principle in France. Equality for race and gender is at the forefront of news but where is the equality in Education? The government should ensure free Broadband (fibre) in every house. Why should the rich or the urban have this advantage that is so powerful?

Broadband and a decent computer for every student would mean that they could link with each other and their tutors without inequality and inconvenience wouldn't it?

I have a mixed opinion regarding online classes and evaluations.
There are positive points about learning from home : you can organize your day as you want, you can work from bed (at 9am it's very pleasant), you can eat during your class... Also you are not obliged to go outside when it's 3 degrees Celsius.
However, there are also so many negative points :
- being in front of a computer from 9 am to 5pm (even more because we have a lot of homework) is uncomfortable and gives headaches, migraines, tired eyes...
- we are easily distracted by everything around us : the phone, the TV, the bed , our family...
- it's really hard to stay focus during 3 hours in front of a screen, there is no interaction between students, and in many subjects the teacher doesn't stop speaking. Fortunately there are teachers like John to make online classes more fun.
- it makes group works harder, and the majority of our homework is in groups
Concerning evaluations, it enables us to cheat.

As student, I think online learning is a good tool for case of emergency or problem like this sanitary crisis because it allows us to keep learning and working instead of losing time and doing nothing for a few months. But on the other side, it is quite difficult to stay as focused online than we can be in class. In fact, working from home, the temptation to watch the online course from bed in our PJ’s, next to our TV is very high. And even apart from this, it is tiring to keep watching a screen for hours without having real interactions with the teacher and our schoolmates, especially for teamwork.
As a teacher, I think it is a really difficult task to keep your students interested and focused about the course because of these things, and I know you have to prepare more stuff to do so. Assessing is surely not an easy task in this kind of situation too because we all know that students are more likely to cheat (looking for answers on the internet or talking with their friends) and that their work is not always representative of their level (in a good or a bad way).

I am quite mixed between the positive and negative sides of e-learning. I think it takes away a lot of the communication that should take place between teachers and students, but also between students. That's why group work with a lot of people is not ideal. Not to mention the connection problems and the microphones that make it difficult to understand what the person in front of you is saying… But in my opinion, and based on the last few weeks, it's still possible to continue learning and teaching efficiently via online courses. The teachers for the most part have been able to adapt to the situation. And the students can more or less manage their schedules and work when they want.
In terms of how students are evaluated and judged, I don't know if there are a lot of differences with face-to-face classes, but I don't really have any idea about that, it depends on the exercises requested, the time allowed, and the skills evaluated....

Personally, virtual classes don't bother me even if I prefer face-to-face classes. It's true that it's practical to stay at home, we can organise our days as we want, we often have more time to finish our work... it can have advantages. What's more, you don't even need to take time in the morning to prepare, you can stay in your pyjamas all day long!
The problem is that the connection isn't always very good so the class can sometimes cut off, we can't hear as well and there is a lot less interaction than in real life. And staying at home all day without seeing people in real life becomes boring... and staying concentrated at home is quite complicated, especially when you're in a lecture class for 3 hours...
As for the evaluations, I honestly don't know what to think about them. It's relatively difficult to do because we have the courses next door, so if the grading has to be done on course questions, it's not worth it. On the other hand, if it's about reports or oral presentations, it's the same thing, so I can't say whether it's advantageous or not but I think that by doing orals, it limits the possibilities of cheating, for example.

Even after a month of online courting I couldn't get used to it.

It's very difficult for me because I really like meeting people, chatting with them, laughing, ...

Since the beginning of the confinement I had the impression of being in a couple with my computer. I don't take it to restaurants (they are closed) and I don't sleep with it but I spend my days with it. It's difficult to stay in his chair in front of a screen for 3 hours and then have to work on the same computer after class.

The days are becoming more and more similar and from my point of view this affects my motivation.

Of course, this is the only alternative during this period of confinement. I would like to thank all the teachers because I know that for them too it is complicated (thank you John ) to keep the students attention and to make the course interesting.

To conclude, online courses are not for me !

First of all, I want to apologize for being late, I got caught up in work and forgot last night. About the online courses, I think it doesn't make it easier to concentrate. Personally, if I'm not stimulated, I get my thoughts going very quickly. Having a computer screen in front of you doesn't help you feel more invested in the course. Moreover, I find it morally difficult not to see anyone and to stay at home. For me, it can affect the quality of the work. The homework given is correct, at the moment we have a lot of it, but I think at the CEPE it would have been the same, I think it's more a question of organisation (all the teachers give the exams at the same time). Some teachers manage to make the course more attractive by making us participate, but this is not the case everywhere. So, as you will have understood, I am not in favour of distance learning, and I hope that we will soon all be able to meet in class.

I didn't like online learning, it not the same thing as reality.
i would be happy if i went back back to Morocco and study online near to my family but i didn't wanted to risk my semester and go to Morocco.
i stayed here in france to be concentrated and do my best, in all courses i went out in the garden i sit in a chair ,the sun in front off me:!: and i start studiying, because at home, i feel like i want to sleep, or eat something,
Last too courses of english i starded talking and then a truck rang, i was afraid that it was heard by my friends and i said sorry if you heard something .
i think that all student of my classe habe been serious on all online courses, not a lot of absences, we talked and discuss the course like if we were in the class.
i how we can go back to class next semester and study normally.