Semester 2 Week 2 alternative - Women in "men's" sport

That isn't my wording it's Alix's It's a discussion about women playing sports traditionally played by men - Rugby, football etc...

Women in "men's" sport.
It's an interesting way to approach this subject. It shows us your idea of the question Alix, but I'll wait your argumentation to know more about your thoughts.
Personaly, I'm not a sportive person, so I have no idea of what to say at this point... but I think that you want to talk about the inequality between the sexes. But is this a problem? I mean, the majority of sports is brutal, violent and could leads to importants damages, and sometimes provoks death. Even if you're prepared, trained, compare to a man you can't, as a woman, deal with this brutality. But again, I specify that I'm not a sportive person at all. But, I'm sure that some of us can. Like one of my best friends. I'm sure that she cans meeting this challenge. Because yes, it's a f***ing challenge. Wich demands both physical stenghs and mental. This is why I think that the women who play "men's" sport are somehow warriors. The only negative aspect is the exposition around them. These women are less exposed as men, and it's damage.

salomekj wrote:, and it's damage.

And it's a shame or it's a pity.

Women in sport are less exposed on TV than men, or in general you hear more about men’s team than women’s. Indeed their game or their race are rarely broadcast, except when they are in a final game of a championship, and if it is the case it is not even on main channels such as TF1. I don’t understand why, because it is just as interesting to see women in any kind of sport, they can do just the same, and run as fast. When you can watch a match of football on TV, for example, played by women you see that they are really playing and that they are really motivated, they give it all just as men. But in some case, I can say that they are not exactly like men, because most of the time when men are pushed a little or tackled, they roll on the floor and fake pain. While women continue playing even if they are bleeding.

Society had change, 20 years before, none a football game of a female team was diffused on TV and now chanel as Canal+ in France diffused the France women competition. Of course, some people will always say that is not the same as the men competition and I can understand that the game is not rude as the men game can be. We know that women have less strengh than boy in general but that's not a problem or a default to make the game interesting. From many years, society put the men on the top of the pyramid so obviously in the most famous and popular sport as the football is, the male football will be undisputable. As a proof of this, we can just observe the amount of the different transfer or salary that a football player can earn, it is unthinkable. I think that the female football will never have the same interest in terms of economy by the investor but it is really pitty because this is very interesting. Of course, this not the same impact, contact or powerful but this is football too and I played with girls when I was a football player and I enjoyed it. I know that I only talk about football but that the same in rugby or others sport.

I think it's a good thing that women play sports that are more often reserved for men. There is no difference to be made, there is no particular gender for each sport, a man can do dance and a woman can do soccer. It is above all a passion and an activity so I don't see why women shouldn't do this kind of sport. Then there are certain sports where men are more adapted to practice it, in the sense that their build will allow them to perform well, like rugby for example. But this does not prevent a woman from playing rugby, she can also have capacities and perform very well!

First of all, the media visibility of women in sport is much lower than that of men for the same types of sports. I don't find it normal that there is such a big gap, I don't think that football matches played by women are less interesting to watch than those played by men. The difference is in the number of passionate people. I don't know the numbers but I think that sports that are qualified as male are much less watched by women. What disturbs me is during competitions where women win medals but the media talk less about it or even see it at all, whereas if it was a men's team that would have won, we would have heard about it.

Compared to what Salome said about the fact that men's sports are harder for women because they are more violent, I don't completely agree. In any case, we are not going to ask a woman boxer to fight against men. From this point of view, I don't see what prevents women from playing football or rugby because they play against partners of the same sex with the same physical characteristics.

On the other hand, I think that certain stereotypes can discourage some women from doing men's sports. Even though there has been a lot of progress in recent years I think that many people think that women who play male sports are not feminine enough, ect. It would also be interesting to gather points of view to find out how both men and women perceive this kind of practice and whether mentalities have really changed.

The education system plays an important role in the way we attribute sport in relation to gender, just as for toys reserved for girls and those for boys it is important to overcome these barriers to allow citizens to make their own choices and not dictated by stereotypes that no longer make sense. I find that mentalities are changing in the right direction but very slowly.

I don't think there are sport for men or women, all of the gender can do all the sport they want. I think it's the society and people who defined this sport if for women and this sport for men, but it is wrong. Everyone can do what they want. But obviously now we are defined to think this like soccer is for men and dance is for women and that's not fair. So I don't think we can talk about women in men's sport because all of the sports are for everyone even if some people don't think the same way.

What is a man's sport? Because in itself, all sports are made for both women and men. However, in some sports, women and men are not equal because of nature and therefore physical strength is unequal. Here, the question of nature does come into play, but in reality, sometimes, intelligence is enough to fill the gap.

First I will answer you Salome. When I say « Women in men’s Sport » it’s becauce that’s how public opinion talks about it.
I’m going to talk about football because it’s the sport I know the best in.
I come from a family of amateurs footballers. My mom did football when she was younger. My sister has been playing soccer since she was 6 years old. She was in sport study. She was notably approached by football clubs but she preferred to concentrate on her studies. The problem with these sports : football, basketball, rugby and many others is that women and men are not considered the same : salary, recognition etc…
My sister trained for 10 years with boys before joining a girls’ club since there were still 7 years there were not many. But I think it’s important for the girls to train with boys, they gain in technicality, endurance, physicality. I know that for my sister it has always give her an advantage on a soccer field to have played 10 years with boys.
Yes, girls earn less money which is why they are paid less and today the clubs are developing more and more. I hope these gaps will decrease and people will take an interest in women footballers.
For me there is no sport for girls or for boys. Sport is something very important in my family so I have always been surrounded by people who played different sports with girls in basketball, football or rugby.

For me there is no sport "reserved for men or women" so I quite agree with what has been said before ! I don't believe that there are specific sports for men or women, and, for me, it's clear that today a woman can practice any sport that was, in the past, considered exclusive to men. Mentalities have evolved over time, in the majority of sports at least.   

On the other hand, it's true that professional women's sport is much less paid and publicised in the media than men's sport. For football, for example, the differences are significant, but this is simply due to the law of supply and demand. For the moment the public is more attracted to men's football, but over time women's football may become more and more popular. In any case it's growing more and more, especially since the last world cup organised in France. So in a few years maybe the gap will get smaller and smaller, even though I think the day when women will win as much as men in football is still a long way off.

Over the last few decades people's mentality has changed a lot and this has also been felt in sport. Men's' sports are also becoming women's sports and women's sport are becoming men's sport. And I think this is good ! After all, a woman is, in my opinion, just as capable as a man of playing football, or rugby for example. But for the majority of "men's sports" (rugby, football, basketball, hand...) even if they play, we don't see women. Men's matches are very popular and very much watched while women's matches are not. We can also talk about professional male players who have huge salaries while, at the same level, women don't even have half of them... (especially if we talk about football...). So yes, mentalities are changing but I think there is still progress to be made.

AlexisC wrote:

The education system plays an important role in the way we attribute sport in relation to gender, just as for toys reserved for girls and those for boys it is important to overcome these barriers to allow citizens to make their own choices and not dictated by stereotypes that no longer make sense. I find that mentalities are changing in the right direction but very slowly.

Good point

I think you've all covered everything that needs to be said, and I have nothing much to add.

Firstly sport as a pleasure activity or for health is just sport. Male or female it doesn't matter. I remember when I first started dating my wife we played badminton once a week together and it was great. However I think sport for professionals where it is their job/career/life is a little different and I think that hasn't really been emphasised here. I'd go so far as to say that for many sports they ARE different sports between men and women.

The example most of you use is football. Men are stronger and faster. The professional game of football is far quicker and much more physical for men. It is a different show, a different sport. I can and sometimes do watch women's matches (England, Leicester, Soyaux) but it is a different game to the men's. As for money that is a different question and as has been said it is about revenue rather than quality. If women can compete directly with men in a sport (show jumping for example) then the money has to be the same but last year a top level French ladies team played a match against boys (I think u18 but I'm not sure) and the boys beat them easily. It's a different sport.

The point about education is good though. We teach (indoctrinate) our children what sports are for boys and girls and that is where we need to start the change.

I agree with all that my classmates said. In our today’s society, it’s a shame to relate a particular gender with a physical activity because of its proper culture, physical “criteria”, and reputation. Women can of course achieve the same sporty exploits than men and even beat them at their own game; as well as men can enjoy and be good at “feminine” sports. The thing is that in this last case, men are often scared to feel feminized or diminished in their masculinity whereas these two things have nothing in common! How does horse-riding or classical dancing have a “feminine” connotation? These sports are incredibly demanding and need real athlete skills to master them, and most men ignore it as they never tried and only focus on the artistic side of these sports which reminds them of women. Same for women, if they are allowed to show and assume their strength, they can achieve anything.