M2 ENFANTS : FUR

Hi !

This is the topic for next week : FUR !  
You can talk about it !

Thanks for starting the topic Andrea - I've moved it to this year's section and not last year's

A relevant article I saw today:

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20181004-how-fashion-fell-in-love-with-faux-fur

Hi everyone,

I found this short video about mink fur. I was shocked and nauseated by the silence of medias on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Kcg1HPIuY

Hi guys !

Thank you John

I'm so happy to see that luxury brand do efforts about the fur on the clothes.
It's time to stop to do clothes with fur. It's criminal. Today, we can feeling hot in our clothes without kill animals.

This is my opinion. We can use other alternatives like cotton, wool, cashmere... or as the article said "made from modacrylic, a derivative of oil and synthetics".
Also, it's true for leather. Today, we can imitated this type of material so it's not very necessary to hurt animals.

Indeed, I think that clothes which made with fur is has been, it's not really modern I think...

Joachim, your video is sooo horrible

Hi everyone

I like to speak about this topic whereas I can't watch any videos .. That's too cruel. I don't know how people can hurt animals just to allow to some people to wear clothes. The worst people are those who wear coats or anything with fur. So yes I agree with Andrea about alternatives like cotton, wool, cashmere. In my opinion, people are wearing fur only to follow the trend and not only to be warmed by (maybe only in Russia ), so if you are an ethical person you could think about alternatives!

joachim natali wrote:Hi everyone,

I found this short video about mink fur. I was shocked and nauseated by the silence of medias on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78Kcg1HPIuY

I saw your video Joachim and i have to say it's quite terrific ! I knew that the conditions, in all kind of business, for animals were pretty bad ! But not at this extant. Once again, we are able to see that the cruelty of men have no limits. All this for fur ... It's make me sick.

I haven't watched the video, Joachim because I love animals and know that man is not very nice

However as a person who eats meat I think it would be hypocritcal for me to be anti-fur use. I will happily decry animal abuse but I'm not in a position to decry animal use am I?

I must admit that I also like leather very much. I have a wonderful leather coat which feels great and keeps me warm and dry. I have a sheepskin flying jacket, I have leather shoes and a leather bag and I'm seriously considering getting a big leather sofa.

So while I understand the view that most of you have, unless you are vegans, I'm going to say that you are possibly hypocrites in your stance.

What do you think to that?

Maelys, Andrea,

Aren't Cashmere and Wool by-products from our use of animals? We only get these products from our enslavement of sheep, goats, rabbits etc... They don't choose to give us these things and they are only living in order to do this. If we didn't consume their bodies or skin or hair then we wouldn't allow them to live, would we?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/a-wool-jumper-is-just-as-cruel-as-a-mink-coat-9610133.html

https://www.peta.org/living/personal-care-fashion/cashmere-mohair-goat-facts/

https://www.peta.org/features/leather-industry/

Ok you're right John I also like leather so I'm a bit a hypocrite ! In the case of wool the sheeps are not killed but shaved and I'm not wearing wool beacuse that scratches. Leather is another thing because their skin is pick up from slaughterhouses, so the first used product is the meat and then the skin is keep do not make waste.. I don't think goat, sheep are living only in order to do this. In my opinion, society considers that those animals are not domestic so we use them like products. I don't think we could change the existing society but it is crucial that the government must reinforce controls in the slaughterhouses and the way they kill animals. Also, if people eat less meat maybe less animals would be killed (also great for the global warming as you could see tomorrow with my topic )

John,

I agree with your opinion. But, I think when you use wool you don't kill the animal. I agree, animals don't choose to give their wool, or meat and, in a certain way, it's also criminal too.
When I posted my comment, I wanted, through my ideas, prove that we can do things with animals without killing them and keep them alive.
But, it's true, and you are right, it's a little bit hypocrite to say "we don't kill animals so, we have found the solution", because, yes, we use animals too.

Admin wrote:I haven't watched the video, Joachim because I love animals and know that man is not very nice

However as a person who eats meat I think it would be hypocritcal for me to be anti-fur use. I will happily decry animal abuse but I'm not in a position to decry animal use am I?

I must admit that I also like leather very much. I have a wonderful leather coat which feels great and keeps me warm and dry. I have a sheepskin flying jacket, I have leather shoes and a leather bag and I'm seriously considering getting a big leather sofa.

So while I understand the view that most of you have, unless you are vegans, I'm going to say that you are possibly hypocrites in your stance.

What do you think to that?

I think that in one way we might seem hypocrite. But i think it's an easy way to pull it off. Killing for a living and killing for comfort are two differents things. It's hard to be convincing since we all buy stuff in a supermarket which is using those harsh methods. Therefore, since i leave in my cousin house i'm more and more into buying stuff from small productors and be a bit more respectful of what earth provides us.

To add something on what you said, I agree that there is a BIG difference between killing animals and "use" their fur for example.
But I don't think it's hypocrite to denounce the use of real fur for fashion if you are a meat lover. Killing animals to eat is part of the food chain. But doing it for fashion, it is just a shame, especially when we look at the techniques used to do it.
The real issue for me is that people are not aware enough of these techniques. There should be more messages on TV for example or on other media to show these horrible pictures and videos and to raise people's awareness (just like the road safety) !
I think, and I hope that it will decrease the sales... and the use of real fur for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Matthieu Morisset wrote:

Admin wrote:I haven't watched the video, Joachim because I love animals and know that man is not very nice

However as a person who eats meat I think it would be hypocritcal for me to be anti-fur use. I will happily decry animal abuse but I'm not in a position to decry animal use am I?

I must admit that I also like leather very much. I have a wonderful leather coat which feels great and keeps me warm and dry. I have a sheepskin flying jacket, I have leather shoes and a leather bag and I'm seriously considering getting a big leather sofa.

So while I understand the view that most of you have, unless you are vegans, I'm going to say that you are possibly hypocrites in your stance.

What do you think to that?

I think that in one way we might seem hypocrite. But i think it's an easy way to pull it off. Killing for a living and killing for comfort are two differents things. It's hard to be convincing since we all buy stuff in a supermarket which is using those harsh methods. Therefore, since i leave in my cousin house i'm more and more into buying stuff from small productors and be a bit more respectful of what earth provides us.  

Totally agree with you Mathieu, eating fresh product from farms or ethical agriculture is better because animals are killed properly

I thought I was going to be out of ideas for this topic, but I like the way this conversation is going. Like Matthieu, I can say I'm more conscientious now about my buying practices.

I have to say that in Brazil using fur and leather is a sign of good wealth. So, it's not very common to see people ashamed of using it, but exactly the opposite, when you say it's a real leather jacket you are better than who uses a fake one. My mom loves to give this kind of "good quality" clothes.

I went to the website in Joachim's video and I saw the list of brands that don't use animal fur. The number of brands that still uses animal fur is big, mainly luxe brands. In the other hand, we can see a lot of fast fashion magazines that don't use animal fur in their clothes. So I guess we can at least see a good sign out of this, because the amont of clothes produced and sold by fast fashion is a lot bigger than luxe brands. And big brands like Versace and Michael Kors are going to stop soon their products with real fur.

Hello to the best classmates,

What a controversial topic !

Mayra, I hope what you are saying about luxury brands is true...

Did you see the last episode of "Cash Investigation" ? => https://www.france.tv/france-2/cash-investigation/736319-luxe-les-dessous-chocs.html
They investigated about the market of leather and fur with luxury brands.

I was really chocked about the way they kill the big white rabbits in China to make coats.

They hang them with the paw on a hook to take off their fur. But the worst, is that they don't pay attention if the rabbit is dead to do that. Rabbits are butched in less than 1 minute. I let you imagine the noises.

Then, this beautiful white fur is sold to big companies European of luxury as Max Mara.
They went in a shop to pretend to buy a coat and the seller said that the fur comes from Italy.

I think, even the people working for big companies are not aware of the industry of animal behind all the clothes that they are selling.

But I agree to say that using animal in clothes represents a little part of the population. Indeed, these kind of clothes are really expensive so few people can afford to buy it.

Hello there !

When we've decided to take "fur" as a conversation subject, I though that it would be very annonying. But I was wrong...I like the passionate debate above.

In my opinion, I agree with those who denounce killing animals to use fur for fashion. But I don't think that it will change anything.
Actually, I think that people awarness is influenced by culture.
Mayra told us that in Brazil, it's a sign of wealth. In other countries, it's not even a subject of debate, since more important concerns are waiting to be solved.

In the other hand, let's be honest : Is it cruel to wear fur but not as much to eat meat?
Human is a predator for ages, and for what? To satisfy his needs. Nevertheless, I think that here, in this case, we should make the difference between needs and desires, because wearing a fur coat is not just a sign of wealth, but it's a desire to let surrounding people know that there is a diffrence between them. Indeed, they are just cruel to satisfy their selfish ego...

Hi everybody

All of you know me and my passion for fashion so this topic is particularly interesting for me who wants to work in this sector! OBVIOUSLY it's the disgusting methods used by the textile industry to kill animals which have to change. Unfortunately, for animals and our conscience... I think it will never change. The luxury is a very special world and brands are ready to do anything to reduce their production costs to generate more and more profit. I think that Canada Goose jackets have coyote fur on the hood while it's an endangered species...

As regards leather, I have many shoes and leather bags and I will probably never stop wearing them because of the quality of this kind of product. But for the fur (so stylish this winter girls !!!!! ) many brands sell synthetic fur and by this way no animal suffering... For people who are interested by this jackets you can be found it everywhere at low price like Zara, Pull and Bear or Bershka for example.

See you soon to dazzle you with my sublime synthetic fur when it will be a little bit colder !

Hi all!

Very interesting to read all of your opinions on this matter which I consider to be extremely terrific...

John, when you say you try not to wear real fur even if you still like to eat meat, I think it's already a great step. The sadest thing about fur is in my opinion the way animals are killed, without any consideration for their pain. I know it is the same thing with some sort of bad quality meat but most of the time the price is an indication of the quality of the meat while in the field of luxury clothes, even the most expensive things can be the result of atrocious murders.

I used to work as a customer adviser for a fashion luxury website and I was extremely surprised to see how important it was for a client to be sure that the bag he or she was buying was made with real fur or real crocodile skin... It is quite disgusting in my opinion and I think it only shows that we've come to a limit of what a human being can do for his own pleasure without any consideration for the planet and the living things on it.

Hi everyone,

I agree with many of you when you said that it's criminal to kill animals for their fur but at the same time I love eating meat so it's hypocrite...
Using synthetic fur is to me a good way to reduce the impact on the animals but there will always be fur-lovers so it will be complicated to eradicated this problem.

Hello ! I read all your comments and I didn't see anybody said that fur was ugly... true or false fur. Remember two years ago, most of girls wore green coat with flashy pink fur... You lied if you ever said once that's cool . So, I don't understand why they want use to this material.

But, I agree with you John, as a person who eats meat I think it would be hypocritcal for me to be anti-fur use. So when Julia says that "killing animals to eat is the part of the food chain", I not agree because in some country, they are not rich enough to buy meat, so they eat vegetables, rices or other condiments. I don't talk about cases of malnutrition.

Moreover, I've seen a video on Facebook where a couple lived for many years without brush teeth and toothpaste because they ate fruits only. So sometimes you thought that you can live with something but you just have to habituate you body to live without it. Same for the meat.

In conclusion, you can live whitout toothpaste and without meat so you are hypocrite if you say that you can't live without fur (if you love luxury )

Hi all,

It was interesting to read your opinions about this topic which I didn't find interesting at first...

In my opinion, we have a brain in order to think wisely before we act and a heart in order to feel compassion and empathy towards other creatures. So if we have to eat meat because it is " part of the food chain " as Julia has mentioned before - eventhough i think it's not necessary to eat meat and we are much healthier whithout eating it- we need to have some mercy when killing these poor animals without causing them pain. But killing animals in order to have their fur is only explained for me that humans want to "satisfy their selfish ego" as Narimanne said. Since we have synthetic subsitutes to warm us in the winter, I think we don't have any reason or excuse to torture or kill any animal in order to take his fur.

Finally, I would like to say that many animals are endangerd or even extinct because of this selfish unmerciful human act which will unbalance our ecological system. I hope one day we can make an end to this.

Elsa RAUCHE LUCAS wrote:Hi all!

Very interesting to read all of your opinions on this matter which I consider to be extremely terrific...

John, when you say you try not to wear real fur even if you still like to eat meat, I think it's already a great step. The sadest thing about fur is in my opinion the way animals are killed, without any consideration for their pain. I know it is the same thing with some sort of bad quality meat but most of the time the price is an indication of the quality of the meat while in the field of luxury clothes, even the most expensive things can be the result of atrocious murders.

I used to work as a customer adviser for a fashion luxury website and I was extremely surprised to see how important it was for a client to be sure that the bag he or she was buying was made with real fur or real crocodile skin... It is quite disgusting in my opinion and I think it only shows that we've come to a limit of what a human being can do for his own pleasure without any consideration for the planet and the living things on it.

I agree with everything you say.

However I think that you are excusing those of us that eat meat too lightly. If we were REALLY worried about the well being of animals we wouldn't be breeding them only to kill them (often at 6 months old) in order to eat them. Even if we kill them in a non-painful way we are still simply breeding them to use them, not for their sake and life but for our consummation. They don't get a life, they get fed in order to be food for us. It is worse than having human slaves isn't it?

Jeremy Massonde wrote:Hi everyone,

I agree with many of you when you said that it's criminal to kill animals for their fur but at the same time I love eating meat so it's hypocrite...
Using synthetic fur is to me a good way to reduce the impact on the animals but there will always be fur-lovers so it will be complicated to eradicated this problem.

Likewise we could eat synthetic meat.

Vincent Balthazar wrote:Hello ! I read all your comments and I didn't see anybody said that fur was ugly... true or false fur. Remember two years ago, most of girls wore green coat with flashy pink fur... You lied if you ever said once that's cool . So, I don't understand why they want use to this material.

But, I agree with you John, as a person who eats meat I think it would be hypocritcal for me to be anti-fur use. So when Julia says that "killing animals to eat is the part of the food chain", I not agree because in some country, they are not rich enough to buy meat, so they eat vegetables, rices or other condiments. I don't talk about cases of malnutrition.

Moreover, I've seen a video on Facebook where a couple lived for many years without brush teeth and toothpaste because they ate fruits only. So sometimes you thought that you can live with something but you just have to habituate you body to live without it. Same for the meat.

In conclusion, you can live whitout toothpaste and without meat so you are hypocrite if you say that you can't live without fur (if you love luxury )

Vincent, like you I enjoy eating some meat but it is false to think that not eating meat is bad for our body.

There are many people who don't eat meat without a dietary problem. Vegans and vegetarians don't suffer more health problems than we meat eaters (apparently they suffer less). Many religions don't eat meat such as Jainism, hinduism and buddhism.

habituating the body is a very good point though.