Week 7 - Do nice girls finish last?

There's an English expression "Nice girls finish last". It doesn't just relate to girls and it means that you have to be a bit bad, naughty, evil even, to succeed in what you do. Do you agree with that? Do you think it's partially right? Do you think people "get to the top" through being polite and pleasant? How far can being good get you? Are there limits to being bad? Sounds like House of Cards.

hello,

I think we know found a balance between being too polished and too bad. I think it is important to be polished to succeed in the life, however nothing prevents the claws out if one person feels verbally abused. Learn to be mean at the right time in order not to appear to a person who can say anything without problem.
To succeed, you have to be polite to the people around us but if someone speaks badly then you have to know respond without necessarily remain polite to make him understand that he can not afford to hurt you speak.
To be in the top, have been nice during our youth has served us well but now we must become "true" and say what we think without cut corners every time. You need to be respect and you should respect people but if one person don't respect you then you should be a madman. To be polite is important in the real life but to be bad in some moment can be mandatory.

Bye ! Have a nice week !

Hello guys,

I quiet agree with Jeremy : we can do both, we just have to judge when it's the right time to be polite, and the right time to be rude. Sometimes people are impolite and unpleasant even when you're polite and pleasant with them and that make me mad. Some persons are always rude with people, like if the entire society was against them, so you don't want to make the effort to know them well, and they just mentally collapse and it's a vicious circle. I don't know, sometimes someone you don't even know smiles at you and that can just put you in a good mood. We don't need to make hugs and kisses to everybody everytime, just as we don't need to punch everyone in the face, we just have to find a golden mean. Some people are to happy and other ones are to sad, but I think that is a result of living in that society, and the way we live our life and how our life is going on affect our way to think and our relations with people. But, to me, finding a golden mean is the best solution, we also have to keeps things in perspective.

Hi!

I’m quite on the same wavelength as you Jérémy and Pierre. I think that they are nice in their words and in their acts by don’t take risks, don’t fight, help everyone instead of them, accept everything, always forgiving... So, being too nice can be a major default. We need to have education and principles, that’s logical, but sometimes we need to let go and be “mean”.  
For the words, I’m a nice guy (I think) but when someone pisses me off, I answer and attacks. But to do this I use retort, no insults or else it’s not helpful. The retort is the manner of construction of sentences where you can bring an arguments and punch lines with sense and who is hurting. Always polite, but with spicy, it’s fine and powerful!
But sometimes to achieve your ends you have to be nice, that’s all manipulation!

Good week-end!

Quiet = silence , you all mean quite.

hello,

I'm not entirely agree on this opinion. In accroding to proof by contradiction, the expression was translated by " The guys who doesn't finish last were not the gods guys". Obviously, it's wrong. But this expression represente still a part of people.

I think the "nice people" have two types. One is like the expression, he finish last, she is bullied or defeated by the bad gus. The other is those who was polite, sincere and clever, she have been obstructed by bad gus but finally she succeed.

So the distinction between two types of gus is the attitude to reply when he confront a threat. We can always be kind in the condition of protecting the personal interests. In other words, each winner had to overcome many difficulties, which were caused by the environment, individuals problems or the competitor. So, winning or losing depend on the means to reply the difficulties. Everything has its bottom line, so does kindness. We qre opposed to someone for protecting ourselves, that's not means that we aren't nice. I think, the succes is the most important, we don't harm others and we don't allow someone else hurt us. It is my rule.

But the society is always much more complex than that we think.

Nice weekend.

Why is it so important to be "first"? Do we undervalue being a pleasant person in our society?

Hello,
I think this expression is a question of context, it depends of wich domain you want to succeed.
The reference with house of cards is perfect but little extrem. It teaches us that we HAVE TO BE evil in order to surpass our rivals. Politics illustrates the expression so well but it's so particular, it's about power and powed makes people mad.
Anyway I think it's differents according to persons. Some people are nice when you're talking with them but mean on the back to take your post. Sometimes those people reach their objectives, sometimes they don't. We say bad people have more succes and wipe the nice out because they don't care of the others. But I'm going to tell you something : I repect the most guys who succeed in honesty. They have much merit !

Bye !

Hi,
Nice subject but a little bit complexe...
We can succeed even wa are nice, polite, this is the first key to being accepted. I think wickedness and seduction are only temporary. To achieve your goals you have to remain yourself, the personality you have will make you successful or not.
However, I think, it's difficult to achieve one's own personal goals in business while constantly making everyone else happy You have to have a competitive spirit for a successful career but do not forget the human aspect which is more important.
I think also, there are differents type of success and definition of power. For me, power is very different for a man than for a woman. For a man, power is often power over someone, over something. Power for a woman is having control of her own life. You can be nice, but you can't be the nice little girl you were taught to be in childhood
In a society where there is a gender inequality at work, this side bit bad, naughty to succeed in what you do is accented. Women are most thing to prove in work so there are snarling Conversely, overly aggressive women tend to be disliked and stigmatized. This joins jérémy we must find a fair balance.
But I am also agree Yue we don’t have to separate kind and bad girl because in each there are some limits. Some situation makes you have to be bit bad but in reality you aren’t. It depends on the situation.

Bye!

It all began many decades ago, when baseball manager Leo Durocher said "Nice guys finish last". It has become a catch phrase, meaning that those who behave very politely and obey all the expectations of society do not gain the same attractive results earned by those who do not. Durocher himself claimed that he meant something a little different by the expression, that his opponents, the New York Giants, were nice guys, but would nonetheless finish in last place. Regardless, the expression has come to associate niceness with failure.
Personally, i think it's negative to think like that because we should not live in anyone else's eyes, we live for ourselves, we judge our behavior in our own way, but not the others, if you think you should be nice, then you be nice, you should always live in a way what makes you comfortable ans what you think that is right, to be yourself, no matter you are nice or bad.

Hi friends !

I am not sure to understand this topic. To my view the real question is : how to succeed in life ? And it exists two ways : first is to be a bad people and the other way is to be nice.
This question is universal, all humans try to find the best way to succeed. But what is the success ? In what do you want to succeed ? Is to be rich and to have a huge power considering as a succeed ? Or the simple fact to be a nice guy without to be rich and powerful is a succeed. Each humain aim a kind of life. They use their knowledge their history to make their aims real. In my opinion the success exists when in the view of other people. In fact if all people think you are a successful guy, you will believe it.

In my view succeed is to create hapiness all around you. That you act are guided by this idea. And you will succeed, you will be a great people, and you will fell in love of you activities/work, and will be the best in your way. I hope ... ^^

Hugs and kisses !

Hello everyone.
I don't think that it's a good thing to use this expression because having a good behavior is pretty much the basis of my education , don't be mean, don't think that you're better than others, be honnest...

The Humans are social people, they need to live with the others, that's a fact and when you're alone, you're sad and in a difficult position. But there is no rule to be kind or a bastard. I think that when you're beginning to be mean, it's a bad thing, all around you but also for you. I don't think that there is a god, a judging day or whatever, but I'm sure that being nice is the only way to live happy.
Sometimes, mean people, who want's to beat you, will have an awful behavior for you, but you have to be stronger thant that, and continue to be kind.

And after all, what is the point to be the first in your field... Just to be strong ?? But at the end it will change nothing.

By guys !

What's up guys !
I trully believe that there is a little part of veracity in this expression and I'm gonna explain why. Sucess had always been at the center of our life, nearly everything that we do are part of this process. And no matter what, according to me the succes is first of all a selfish accomplishment. Totally agrre with the fact that you can share it with your family, your friends, ect but at the end of the day, that always begin with yourself; and everybody want to be successfull. Based on my little life experience, I can't say that is impossible to be successfull and be nice at the same time, but it's seems clearly more thought than being an asshole and succes.

Hello everyone,

To mind my mind there are differents ways to be successful in your life. If you are not respectful and nice with other people it may be easier for you, but it’s unethical. Would you be proud of you if you know that your success is to the detriment in other people’s lives ? I think, even if I’m successfull, I would be guilty about my course of action.

Moreover, to be successful and nice is more gratifying for people. However it may be hardier to be nice if you are not used to be nice in you life. That’s why, in my opinion it’s matter be well-educated and nice since we were kids…

Hi

Most of you say that "nice" people are fooled by the "bad" people, and that its people should be strong but for me we can be nice and strong.
In more I think that be nice can be an asset like a flaw, because This allows to have a better relation to the people for example but If we are too nice, some people (evil people) can exploit this kindness. So I don't think that be evil can be the better solution to succeed in life but it can be solution sometimes even if I do not find this respectable.
Then being "evil" is often done to the detriment of others, while the kindness on contrary spreads joy and good mood, which is another asset to be good and being bad will always fall on the wrongdoer after a certain time.

Hi !

I don't think that the phrase "Nice girls finish last" is totally true. Being polite and respectful is essential in the behavior and character of a person. If to succeed you must forget all of your education and be a bad guys that doesn't make sense. Especially since in the end this type of person finds himself partly alone. If for some be bad, naughty allowed to succeed, they surely lost a lot of thing in their quest for success.
It must, as some have said, have a right middle. For neither should on be too kind as it could become a defect for the person and many would benefit from this kindness.

Find the right middle, be smart and thoughtful, usually success is never far !! (it all depends on the significance you bring to success)

Bye

(The word "Nice" in itself is not a positive or clever word. It doesn't mean much, yet people use it all the time.)

I agree with Arthur on asking ourselves : What is success? Why do we want to succeed? And how are we going to go about it?
Success, and it's meaning, depends on the person, and can/will change at any given moment. Success is also reliant on our surroundings, on society.
The "why" of success comes from our personal and professional goals and is highly influenced by our education, our peers, and other people's opinion...
However, how you achieve something depends entirely on you.  

I don't believe being nasty, or nice influences a great deal success. Though people may beg to differ... and it has occured to me that being nice can be seen as a weakness. Maybe because of this very catch phrase "nice girls finish last".
I think that "wittyness", intelligence, being humble, being honest, etc. is more likely to bring success in the long term, and make happier beings along the way.
Respect in others and yourself is very important as well - but you have all talked about that, so I shall not dwell on the subject.

We quite often link success to "mean, evil" people. We often link power and money, as we do with nice and "losers"...  We end up catagorizing things all the time. We are people after all, we are made up of all sorts (love, jealousy, anger, selfishness...)- and at the end of the day there is a bit a niceness in everybody. It's up to us to choose what we share.

One last comment. I do not agree with the fact the this catch phrase is directed at girls, nice girls. I would have largely prefered it be about "nice people".

I'm not really agree with that expression. It's true, if a nice girl meet bad person, she can be exploited. But most people are nice with gentle person, so when a nice girl is in trouble, someone help her.
On the other hand, I think that to be the first and to be considered like the first are two different things. To be the first is not really a question of kindness but a question of skill while to be considered as the first depends of the capacity of the person deciding who's the best to do his job.
Furthermore, in my opinion a nice girl don't really try to be the first and it's doesn't matter to be the last especially if you don't care about that.

What is up !

Today the topic is about nice girls finsh last. According to me there is many ways. For me there is some people who want to succed at the expense of all. They don't care about nothing, no moral, no kindness, the don't fucking care about nothng. Unfortunetly this type of guy/girls used to succed on their life. But when u make naughty, rude, selfish thing  u always end up paying. You finsih by loosing all what u build. And the fall is terrible!
This does not mean that if u are a good girl you gonna fail on your life. But u know if u are true not hypocritical, u gonna have too much haters, it will be very hard for u to succed to shine bright like a diamond u gonna  fall u gonna be sad but NEVER GIVE UP  honnesty always ends up shinning!
So for me perhaps nice girls finish last it depends, But when they attain success they keep it forever!
And this type of girls is like a diamond

Hi

It's a bit complicated subject. I think it depends primarily on the situations and the people in front of us. Ideally you should always be honest, polite ... and good. But I think that is not possible. Nobody is totally and there will always be people who will push you to be a little nasty, bad. We are not in a world where everything is just "white" or "black".
And I think that brings another questions, to what extent? When is it considered wrong? It depends on everyone...
To succeed I think that we must be able to do both, as long as we remain faithful to or even ... Because everyone has his vision of his success.

Hi everyone,

To respond to this topic it's necessary to define the concept to "succeed in your life". Indeed, if your goal is to feel stronger than each others and to be the boss you have to be bad or at least doesn't make concession for them. But if your poursuite of the hapiness is just synomine to found a familly and to be happy together, at this moment you can be a good guy and succeed.
Nevertheless, the fact to be polite and caring is importante and today many people forgot this values and are rather locked on themselves. It's just a matter of "living together" and this can resolve many troubles inside our society.