articles for group discussion (after November hollidays) - VEGANS

Let's talk about VEGANS

Who knows veganism ?
Who is vegan ?
Why would you go vegan ?


A - You are not satisfied with the processed food (health)
B - You want to contribute to the animals wellbeing (empathy)
C - You  have other reasons ?


Tell us !

Hi !

So Wissam, I'm not vegan, but I know people who are.
To be vegan, it's to exclude any consumption of product of animal origin. This results by not eating meat, honey, drink milk... don't wear leather... Veganism refuses the commodification of animals.
So being vegan is a way of life. I'm not at all against this idea. I find it even interesting, because the animal respect is very important. Neverthless, it will be hypocritical to say that I could beacome vegan. For example, I couldn't stop eating meat. But I think that if everyone individually reduces their consumption of meat and keep in mind what is said to animal farming condition, it could reduce intensive farming (wiich pollutes more and where the living condition of animals are neglected), and could contribute to more respectul agriculture of animals.
And you, what do you think ?

Have a good holidays !

HI !
I don't know what I can say about this subject....

I will introduce this topic with a very sad story
I read an article about a vegan mother who didn't give milk to her baby. In fact, she didn't want give cow milk to her baby because it's an animal.....but.....she didn't want give to her baby her own milk !! Because humans are animals too according to the parents !!! Unfortunately, the baby die and diagnosed as malnourished.

I find an other article in english about this : https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/baby-breastfed-by-vegan-mother-dies/

If people want be vegan, I don't care ..... but I think it is not normal if someone suffers from this constraint....and die because of this !! Like it's poor baby.

I read other articles (medical articles) which said that humans have to eat a bit of everything to be weel and have a good development.

Like the article which tell us : "A 12 year old girl raised on a strict vegan diet was admitted to the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Glasgow, suffering from a severe form of rickets. The girl has been diagnosed with a degenerated spine comparable to that of an unhealthy 80-year-old woman."

Hi,

I did food studies and i learnt a lot this way of life : veganism, vegetarian and what we call in French "fléxitarien"
For me, it's a real stake.

On the one side, there are problems of intensive breeding, lack of respect for the animal and on the other side the desire to eat ethically, differently and of better quality.

I understand people who decide not to consume meat or animal products for all values. In consequences, vegetarian, vegans and the "flexitarism" movement has emerged to counter this phenomenon.
The "flexitarian" consume less meat but of better quality. They pay attention to farming conditions and prefer to buy meat with label (in short).
But when you see the "war" that there has been between butchers and vegans, i have a problem with that.
You can't impose a lifestyle. It's a decision that's specific to each person and based on personal convictions.
And I think that's damage, because many elements in meat can't be found in vegetable foods and many children suffer from deficiencies etc.
It also puts at risk a hand-crafted job that has existed for a very long time. Butchers are fewer and fewer, so in addition if they are attacked....

But intensive production is not a solution, i think we must find a balance and engage in our food to counter all this food abundance that has led to overproduction in all areas.

For me, the eater is the actor of his food, don't you agree?

Like Marceline I think that I will be never a vegan people. I can't stop eating meet. Be vegan is a strict lifestyle you had to be carefull all the time and it drastically reduces the possibility of having fun, in my way.

I already heard about flexitarism, I think it's a new trend. It is true that it is a tendency of consumption more and more in vogue. I'm not vegan but maybe a little bit flexitarism..I do not eat meat at every meal, mostly the evenings, because I'm tired, I don't want cook so much and I do not want to overeat.

I respect people who are vegans, there is a lot of scandal about animals that hurt their heart. For exemple the broadcasting of shock videos filmed in slaughterhouses like the crushed chicks live to make nuggets. We can speak too about Cash Investigation, presented by Élise Lucet and broadcast on October 9 on France 2, which show the luxury industry, especially the fur used to supply the Max Mara brand. I will not post any article or video about this, it's a little bit hard...

I am not vegan nor vegetarian but I respect their way of seeing things. I just have some questions ... why some vegans eat fish but not meat, they are living beings too .. and sometimes they are raised in horrible conditions.
Then if the people are vegan it's against animal abuse or against the pollution of the planet, or maybe both .. but some of the people I know are more positioned for a cause.
I find these are good causes to want to defend animal abuse and pollution of the planet. But I think that there may be alternative solutions, such as raised animals but thinking about their welfare, so raise them outdoors for example and not in cages. And for agriculture, we must use products that do not pollute the planet and reduce a little so that there is more overconsumption.

Some vegans become extremists during demonstrations, attacking butcher shops or shops as we read in this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45499368
I do not think this is the best solution, vegans claim not violence so why use this kind of method?

A little story: one day I was talking with a vegan, we were debating this topic when a friend of hers came to see me saying that she had a real leather coat with fur that she had paid very expensive .. so if the person has real convictions for me she must throw this kind of clothes.
To conclude that veganism has become a lifestyle rather than true beliefs?

All your comments are very interesting !

I'm not vegan, and I think I will never be (my dad is a farmer and we probably will kill me if I am aha). As you have said, I also respect all forms of veganism or vegetarianism. One thing I do not suport are the extreme speeches of some of them and the false ideas they put in the head of people. I think we have to do wathever we want but no try to impose our ideas to others. Also I think all forms of extreme speeches is useless, because at the end we can't disscuss and argue we those people.
Furthemore some vegans poeple makes me angry because they denigrate all forms of agriculture, put all farmers in the same bag and I totally disagree with that because then, most of people think that al farmers are bad and animals are not respected but it is not. For exemple, I know that my father's cows are very happy, they live 100% of their life in the field and have the space they want etc..
For my part, what I do is reduce my consumption of meat but buy one of quality (with label etc...), with French origin, and most of the time in butcher's and no in supermarkets. And if we all do that, it will allows little farmers to finally live well of their work !!

I think the more you are engaged politicaly, the clearer is your side (to be or not to be a Vegan).
You all respect Vegan, but only the good sides of it.
Laure said that eating is acting. So keep eating what you want.
If you want to defend real veganism, you have to engage, be an activist and erase all forms of extremism, because hate brings hate.
From the animal perspective, we can say they would have the right to feel hate - I am joining Clemence's point of view - Man just does not let them feel it and they kill them ''painlessly'', considering that their are humans that feel what animal feel, do we have a responsibility from now on ?
Is veganism compatible with our capitalistic society, with ever growing production rates ? I'd say no. Feels vanish behind profit. But as marketers, we can not ignore people who suffer for animals. "Hard to say it, Had to say it".
Again Clemence gave the most alternatives and she conforted me in being more vegan than before.

Should animals be treated respectfully?
Should Humans have the right to take the life of another sentient being?
Would it be better if we had to kill the animal ouself in order to eat it?
Should we only be allowed to kill wild animals and not breed animals with the specific use of killing them (often at only 6 months old) and eating them?
Could you accept someone killing your pet dog/cat in order to eat it for lunch?
Do we really need to eat meat?

There are some religions that are obligatorily vegetanarians like Jainism and others that advise it like Hindus and Buddhists. These religions are often seen as peaceful religions as there diet is based on not hurting other life forms.

Admin wrote:Should animals be treated respectfully?
Should Humans have the right to take the life of another sentient being?
Would it be better if we had to kill the animal ouself in order to eat it?
Should we only be allowed to kill wild animals and not breed animals with the specific use of killing them (often at only 6 months old) and eating them?
Could you accept someone killing your pet dog/cat in order to eat it for lunch?
Do we really need to eat meat?

There are some religions that are obligatorily vegetanarians like Jainism and others that  advise it like Hindus and Buddhists. These religions are often seen as peaceful religions as there diet is based on not hurting other life forms.

Hi admin and everybody !
I think it's absolutely necessary that animals be treated respectfully ! When I saw videos where humans torture animals in abattoir....I think that there are only humans to do this king of things.....Human is the only "sentient" being who practice torture and feel pleasure when they hurt animals......

For the right to take the life of another being.....in fact I don't have "fixed opinion". I think that all animals have to kill or eat other animals to survive.....and humans are animals....The difference is that animals don't practice torture and kill themself the animal they eat (like you underline Mister Admin)....

In fact, maybe it should be better if we had to kill ourself the animal that we eat....My mother narrated me that when she was young, there are hens and wild boars in her grand mother's garden....but....nobody had the courage to kill one of this animals.....
I think humans are a little bit coward....they teach other people a lesson....but on this other way they torture animals and they prefer that other people do "the dirty work".

hello everyone,

I don't really not what to say about this subject, as most of you I’m also not vegan or vegetarian. I understand why they choose this way of life and their convictions but I don’t share all of them.
But as a consumer, even if I won’t stop easting cheese or meat, I prefer looking and being aware of what I am eating. I know nowadays it’s difficult to know exactly what’s we eat. Therefore, I think this is a huge problem, how hidden those informations can be. So about, vegan and vegetarian, I see why they stop consuming som products but in my point of view it’s a nice way of life, they preserve themself as long as their it’s ok for their health and for real convictions. Also, beyond the convictions of vegan/vegetarian people, those way of life are indictive of defects of our society and our ways of consumption. Like you said, about the treament of animals, the surconsumption of produts, the waste linked to this. So do you think veganism can change the working of our society globally ?

Florine VIAUD wrote: So do you think veganism can change the working of our society globally ?

Most people seem to be saying that veganism is a "way of life" against violence and use of living creatures. If this is so surely if people adopted veganism golbal society would be revolutionised. It would be a bigger change than anything since the beginning of the industrial revolution, technically, economically, politically and mentally.

Can't see it happening though.

Hello,
I'm not vegan, and I don't have any problem with them. I think that we are all different and if people feels better without eating something of animal origin I think they should continue like this. I have a friend who is vegan and she eats a lot of various things and a lot of vegetables ! And my roommate is very touched by this cause and she cooks sometimes vegan plates. Last time I tasted a vegan chocolate cake and it was very good! She replaced some ingredients by others : there were chickpeas and dates in her cake. It was a good experience haha !

Admin wrote:

Florine VIAUD wrote: So do you think veganism can change the working of our society globally ?

Most people seem to be saying that veganism is a "way of life" against violence and use of living creatures. If this is so surely if people adopted veganism golbal society would be revolutionised. It would be a bigger change than anything since the beginning of the industrial revolution, technically, economically, politically and mentally.

Can't see it happening though.

Yes I don't think either, it's too big, it was just a kind of uthopic question to see what arguement we could give on this matter.

Hi !
I am not vegan neither, and as Marceline I think I will never be, it's hard to totally stop eating meat when you are used to. I reduce a bit my meat consumption, I don't need to eat meat for each meal. I think vegans are very brave to abandon all animals products to live a life in agreement to their mind and values. But as Clémence the big problem I have with the vegans are the extremists. There is only 1% of vegan in France, so how can they have as much extremists ? Maybe the majority of vegan are not, but there is a big proportion of extremists. We are not judging them because they don't eat like us, so why are they judging us ? As the others have said, it is not normal to be violent, to break the butcher' stores. The problem is that they don't understand that we are not like them, and we can't change our way of life like this. Veganism is a very new way of life, for now it's just the beginning. All the world will not get vegan in a few years. In the future I'm sure there will be more and more vegans and more and more solutions against the bad treatement of animals. But they have to be patient, and not violent, because like for everything in the history, nothing change in a few years.

Hello !
I am flexitarian and I think is a good life style for the consumption of meat and for the health. Because if we eat less meat we can have better conditions in the livestock farming and also this industry will pollute less the air and the earth.

In more, for the health, the Anses (Agence National de sécurité sanitaire de l'alimentation, de l'environnement et du travail) advice to eat 500 g/week of red meat, so 2/3 steaks by week for example. And after that you can eat chicken/poultry, fish, eggs or cheese.
Like you said, if we buy at the butcher, the meat is often take in a near farm and the origin is more secure.

So what I think is we are making in progress the responsible consumption now, in France the meat consumption has decreased by 12% since 2008.

But it is an utopie to change the mass industrie...the 1000 coats farmer in the North of France.

Sources :
https://www.lemonde.fr/sante/article/2017/01/24/moins-de-viande-et-de-charcuteries-moins-de-sucre-les-recommandations-de-l-agence-sanitaire_5068115_1651302.html
https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2018/09/06/la-consommation-de-viande-en-france-recule-depuis-dix-ans_5350897_3244.html

The movie "La boucherie Ethique" of Les Parasites, put forward the limit of the animal ethic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwZee0r_ICs
(It's in french but you can put the english subtitle)

Hello everyone, sorry for being late!

Like many of you, I'm not vegan. I don't eat "red meat" because I don't digest it and it's not by conviction. I think it is normal to eat meat because it is "inscribed" in our nature. I also agree that we must limit our consumption of meat.

Regarding other products from animals, it is a matter of choice: prefer almond milk rather than cow's milk is a choice among many others. We are in a society where we face many choices.
I respect the people who are vegan because for me, it would be difficult to change my eating habits, to preserve the animal cause.

BUT, as Clemence said, all farmers are different. Many people take care of their animals, and unfortunately it isn't said. The most problematic is the conditions in abattoir.

I don't know if you watched the show "capital" on M6 about a month ago. A show was devoted to vegans. We had many extremist images and that I do not understand.

I respect the vegans that do not impose their choices and that passively manifest. For extremists I have some difficult to understanding them I admit ...