Second discussion subject - immigration

Is immigration good or bad for a country? What do you think about French immigration policies? What should be done with the people in the Calais Jungle? Why do they want to go to England rather than stay in beautiful France? Anything you want to say about immigration this is the place to say it.

Hi,

All coins have two sides, in my view the immigration have advantages but also the disadvantages. For example, it can increase the energy of economy for every country, ameliorate the shortage of labor. But at the same time, too many immigrants will occupy the ressources and that will be difficult for government to manage these immigrants.

I think the French policy of immigration is more and more strict, that will make the immigrant feel the government of France didn't trust them. So now, less and less talents who is higher learning doesn't want to immigrate into France. Instead, more and more people chose to marry a French people for getting the French nationality, which is not really good for the development of France.

About Calais jungle jungle, I think government should improve their living environment. Since the France decided to accept these refugees, France should be responsible for them. I think the condition provided by government is not good for refugees living. And now, there are a lot of people who discriminate against these refugees. They didn't consider the refugee as a real man. Maybe that's why these are so many commotions.

As far as I am concerned, the reason why these refugees want to go to England rather than stay in France is that most of refugees come from Middle East where the people speak English. So they don't need to learn French and also it's easier for them to integrate the local people. Many refugees think the French discriminate so much against them, so they are afraid of living in France. And the last reason, personally, is that the welfare and education in England is better than in France.

The immigration debate is really cleaving. So to my mind, migrants come to flee a country at war, therefore the solution would be to put an end to that. However, that is not so easy.
That's why, the european governement decided to welcome them. In France, if they are spotted before to arrived in Calais (to cross the Channel) they distributed in center through the country. So, in this case, the living conditions are better than in the jungle. Some consider taht the government has to take care first and foremost of our citizens homeless. This point of view can be defended, however he has to exist an happy medium between this two causes.
The french policies about immigration are understandable even if we can consider that there are exceeded by the number of migrants in Calais in particular. Indded, the living conditions are not human, so (in this electoral period) François Hollande promises to destroy it, to make Calais attractive for tourists and companies. And thus to distribute the migrants wishing to stay in France, even if the majority wish to pass in England. But the British authorities don't make many efforts...

As said before, immigration has its pros and cons. It's a complex topic since one usually has a lack of knowledge about it, for instance, one of our teacher showed us a chart displaying the actual percentages of immigrants amoung population of several countries and the percentage of immigrants that their respective population think it is and they always overestimate it. Anyway, Europe is clearly going through an immigration crisis.
But we have to distinguish legal and illegal immigration. The legal one is often a boost to the economy under certain circumstances, the country have to be healthy, without any crisis whatsoever. In france it's not the case, the country is declining, the unemployment rate is quite high, etc. I mean, french people fear to lose their job because of a massive immigration even if unemployment rate and immigration are usually inversely related, they make easy shortcuts.
Unfortunately, until european countries agree on a solution, the people in Calais have to make do with their situation

The refugee tide continues to impact the continent of Europe . How to solve this refugee crisis, the French government has become quite a headache for it.but for the refugees, the France doesn’t seem to be their ideal destination. All these has sparked debate in france. At present, we cant see it’s not good or bad for a country.
Immigration have advantages and also disadvantages, while the French government advocates and follows the principle of "all citizens are equal", many immigrants still feel neglected and marginalized. A refugee from Syria, said in an interview, although France stressed the humanitarian tradition, but they lack practical action. In accordance with the relevant provisions of France, apply for asylum, in the material review period they can not work, and this time may be up to 9 months. In addition, only about one-third of those who apply for asylum have access to temporary shelter. Maybe that’s the reason they prefer to go to England or other country..

Around 200 000 immigrants come to france each year. The main problem is that all immigrants live in the same places in france, the repartition is very heterogeneous. Consequently, the opinions of people can change about immigration because they don't see the same things daily. If the government want to have immigrants as guest, they have to put way for improve theirs living conditions and avoid these situation which damage the image and the (Like Calais Jungle). Moreover, with the economic situation, the france welcome immigrants but can't offer them a job etc, we are in peopling immigration more than working immigration, and that doesn't improve the situation of the country..
Government have to make decisions, and improve lot of things concerning this subject, because if we accept to receive them, it must be in good conditions.

I am agree with Killian Posset about of the the repartition in France.
In my opinion France is not friendly enough.
France is rich. We can offer a ticket to Britain to immigrants. They all want to go to Britain.
In France we block their path, as they make life easier and give them a ticket, we would have fewer problems.
In solidarity with our British friends in Europe, we owe them that.

Otherwise we can also select immigrants as Canada. If you're smart and beautiful, we want you, otherwise not. We can also select such as Switzerland. If you are rich so we want you, but if you're poor we do not want you. Though we said it is always difficult to talk about this subject because it involves humanity.

po-vinel wrote:I am agree with Killian Posset about of the the repartition in France.
In my opinion France is not friendly enough.
France is rich. We can offer a ticket to Britain to immigrants. They all want to go to Britain.
In France we block their path, as they make life easier and give them a ticket, we would have fewer problems.
In solidarity with our British friends in Europe, we owe them that.

Otherwise we can also select immigrants as Canada. If you're smart and beautiful, we want you, otherwise not. We can also select such as Switzerland. If you are rich so we want  you, but if you're poor we do not want you. Though we said it is always difficult to talk about this subject because it involves humanity.

Are you a donald Trump supporter?

Are you a donald Trump supporter?[/quote]

I think you found my favorite candidate. He is perfect. He have any failure.
He is always with pretty women and she know how write an original speech.

I'm agree with Rindra. Immigration can improve the economy of a country in case the situation is checked. Unfortunately is not the case in France. As it's a large-scale migration, the government isn't brought up to deal with this problem, and frenchpeople don't want foreigners come to take their job. Therefore as we do not authorize them to work, few people consider them as congestions.

Next, for immigrants which stay in Calais, I can understand the reason why the governement want to maintain them. Unfortunatly, they have to undergo a situation undesirable. But now Uk leave the Europeean Union. So they can let them leave for England.

Hi, firstly what is immigration, immigration is a deplacement of group of people, a french business man who going to singagpor is a imigrant. But here, the principal subject is deplacement of people who leave their country to find job and better life
At the moment it's the campaign for american election, 2 candidates, 2 vision. Stop immigration and stay like is now. Trump vs Clinton. Tyranny (stupidity) vs democracy
The best idea since 10 years, do to build a wall on the mexican and usa frontier by the mexican people for stop the mexican immigration. i don't need to say who is the genious who said that.
But mister Trump forget the advantages, the mexican people are often babysitter, cleaning women (that's not a reduction, just reality, they are underpay and harness), it's not a dreaming job but it's job, and the "real american people" (for Trump) do not these job.
These people buy a american brand when they go to supermarket. That's good for american company.
Other example, when you see the silicon valley, you see a big melting pot. Many nationality. Many people who have origins, but they are american before all. Ameriva offer better life for us, they offer their brain. MAny company are created by american with origin (like Sergey Brin cofounder of Google)  It's not Trump's brain whitch saved america.
Who make cleaning in Trump's hotels ? not his wife. Mexican people it's ewploi. But Trump president will go himself in his hotels for cleaning. One is never better served than by oneself no ?

Hi,
Today, many ideas flow about immigration in France. Some informations relayed by medias or politicians aren't correctly explained. We can listen and read "France welcomes all the poverty of the world", "Immigrants take the jobs of the french natives, it's the explanation of unemployment in France" or "We must control immigration".
Firstly, in France, we have 5 immigrants for 1000 inhabitants per capita entitlements (0.5%). Yes, France welcomes immigrants, but, as much as the other developed countries.
Secondly, in France, we have an increase of the population. Consequently, we have an increase of the consumption. Finaly, we have an increase of needs in employment. Migrants takes jobs that French people don't want, mainly jobs with low skilled. Immigration doesn't makes the unemployment rise.
Finaly, in France, the population ages. In 2050, the cost of the ageing will be upper of 3% of GDP. If we stop immigration, the cost will be uper than 4.3% of GDP. If we don't selected the immigrants, the cast will be upper than 2.4%. In the long term, the best strategy for France isn't to make a selection with immigrants.
In conclusion, the ideas witch circulate are massively invalidated but as on of other subjects, they keep however circulating in the mouth of some politics.

Hello,
So, for me, I consider immigration like a chance for us, because there are a lot of advantages to welcome refugees. In first, economically, the refugees contribute to the growth with a new workforce and new consumers. In second, culturally, the immigration allows to create an exchange of cultural values.
In France, we connect too often immigration with unemployment and criminality but it's completely false and a large number of statistics demonstrate it.
About Calais, I think the situation is not human and I don't understand how this problem can last as long in the word's sixth economy power. For me, it should be an urgent problem for our country but we didn't sill find good solutions today...

The question of immigration is sensitive. The world knows a migratory crisis because of wars or another.
One of the problems in France is the distribution of the immigrants as some people said it. And it has repercussion on the opinion of the people. One person living in Calais has not felt the same as I, living in Poitou-Charent.
Then the policies led by the government can not improve the situation because it doesn't solve the problem.. They are policies of half-measure. Rather than every country complains from its side, why not come together to find real solutions which also consist in helping countries where from the migrants.
Some French complain to welcome the poverty of the world. But we shouldn't forget that countries as Jordan or Libya are the ones which welcome most refugees. Amnesty International has pulled out a study which shows that 10 countries which represent 2.5 % of the world GDP welcome more than half refugees. Lebanon which has 5 million of inhabitants, welcomes 1 million refugees and Jordan welcomesmore 600 000 Syrian while the United Kingdom only 8000.

There are different types of immigration and it's easy to confuse the both. To my mind, the first categories is the war's immigration, it's represents the majority of the immigration in the world. This categorie is the subject of discussion this moment. Wars in Syria, Libya for exemple force the population to leave their country. The problem is movement of population because they leave their country by millions to go in an other place. It's impossible for a country to welcome as much as people. Calais's jungle explain this problem because thousand migrants live in Calais since many months and a part of french population doesn't accept to pay for this people.

I'm agree with Sebastian, the immigration is a chance for us. This diversity contributes to the richness of the community in so many ways. Not only, economically but also culturally, immigrants allow us to discover cultures, habits and to see another vision of the world and of the life.
The situation in Calais looks like  the history in the movie District 9. If you didn't see it you should watch this movie. The history is a bit strange but it's a good movie and it's the perfect representation of the recent immigrationand more particulary in Calais . We let humans live like animals . I can't imagine and understand how can we maintain this camp and how can we do nothing to improve the situation. I think we are human before to be french, english or european.

I would much rather have spoken about champions league...
For me, it's a very sensitive question and I dont want to give an opinion but only say one thing;
in history, France is the country which is the center of Europe. So when people from rest of the world came in Europe they were obligated to came in France. In consequences, our country became a place of passage.

Emilie Virfollet wrote:
Then the policies led by the government can not improve the situation because it doesn't solve the problem.. They are policies of half-measure. Rather than every country complains from its side, why not come together to find real solutions which also consist in helping countries where from the migrants.

It's quite hard to help the countries which immigrants come from because of their very own situation: Syria is at war, Lybia is a ghost (and no more rogue? idk) country, north african countries living in extrem poverty. So even we assume that it's is geopolitically feasible, it'll cost a lot. Maybe the solution is to help north africa fighting (honestly) proverty so they can create opportunities to neighbor countries in order to damp population migration

As many said above, you can't just look at the bad side of something and pretend you know everything about it. Unfortunately it's the case for many people in France thanks to the media...The problem is that France welcomes the immigrants and have nothing to give them. A lot of them also finds their way in but it's not like they have any other choice. It's like dropping a shit and pretend it's not yours. It's been a while since there is a jungle in Calais and in my opinion it's only thanks to the upcoming election that the problem is well know now. Actually I can't see any win-win solution coming out of it.

Hello,
In France we have talked about immigration since a long time. In fact before the instability in Middle East, the majority of immigrants came from eastern country and Spain. Some people and political parties thinks that people will steal job. Currently the Calais’s Jungle are in the top of newspapper. These migrants come from countries where the war and the povrety are global and are looking for a new life in Great-Britain. Why England ? Owing to the most of them have family or friends in this country and pocess a good english level. Since September, we have built a wall to prevent the migrants from climbing into the trucks, it was financed by the British government (the walls are trendy now!). France has implemented a policy to allocate migrants in different regions. But most French have a negative image of immigration because of this job history but also think that they will not integrate. Now that immigration issues will be part of the political debate for the 2017 in the presidential election.

Here's some people view of immigration:

Which is actually interesting cause it points out the problem as a whole: is France capable of welcoming all immigrants coming or already living here?
You'll have some who are in trouble and don't find a job, have really hard time getting their new lives started. But some others got a job, pay their taxes and everything.
In the end, at our time of economical crisis people start saying immigrants take our jobs and at the same time live of allocations and help from the State.

In my mind maybe we shoudln't welcome as much foreigners if it's to let them live in Calais' jungle or take down their dream of a better life in France by letting them rot in some Paris' suburbs. If the State welcomes foreigners into its ground it should really help them get used to the society, help them finding a job and ultimately finding their place in their new home.

I guess i'm a bit late and i don't have time to read all of this, so i'll just give my opinion, sorry if it's a kind of overlaps with another comment. I think there's one real problem with immigration generally, the state of mind of the people who already leave in the country... as we can see in america, poverty and inequality often become from people who don't mix together, that's the salad bowl concept, so one of the solutions to make immigration more profitable for all the parts can consist in turning this salad bowl into a melting pot, so immigrants can better integrate themselves, which may reduce inequalities. (yeah easy to say not to do, i like to beat a dead horse)

Sorry for my late. I don't know a lot of thing about immigration but at least if i was immigrant i would like to be treated well. People generaly don't immigrate for pleasure so we have to be empathic and try to understand. The main idea is to help them by charity. Of course it is easy to say but hard to develop. Association, individual charity and other action like this are good i think but the problem is that some people can abuse of the system. It remind me about medical tourism. My mother work in the national medical services (administration) and told me a lot about people coming to France to have free medical intervention. In fact, national paper and other certification needed aren't hard to get, so people abuse by coming only for expensive intervention. Personaly i don't blame people for that. i told about empathie, so if i was them, i would probably do the same thing.

I think people have also to understand that immigrant made this choice because it was the less shitty. We have to understand suffering and learn to respect those who respect us.

Immigrants are important in some situations to support economic activities. For example in Japan, whose population is aging rapidly, they accept a lot of Chinese and Southeast Asian immigrant workers in agricultural and medical service sectors. There are not enough young Japanese who want to take this kind of job, and the society won’t hold without these immigrants.
But national sentiment won’t necessarily accept that. Some consider that immigrants deprive them of jobs, others can’t deal with cultural differences. I think it’s important for government to support people (of its country) in employment by increasing public/private investment and offering vocational training. Promoting studying abroad will help young people understand cultural differences, which would diminish future intercultural friction.

Jules Rolland wrote:Hi, firstly what is immigration, immigration is a deplacement of group of people, a french business man who going to singagpor is a imigrant. But here, the principal subject is deplacement of people who leave their country to find job and better life
At the moment it's the campaign for american election, 2 candidates, 2 vision. Stop immigration and stay like is now. Trump vs Clinton. Tyranny (stupidity) vs democracy
The best idea since 10 years, do to build a wall on the mexican and usa frontier by the mexican people for stop the mexican immigration. i don't need to say who is the genious who said that.
But mister Trump forget the advantages, the mexican people are often babysitter, cleaning women (that's not a reduction, just reality, they are underpay and harness), it's not a dreaming job but it's job, and the "real american people" (for Trump) do not these job.
These people buy a american brand when they go to supermarket. That's good for american company.
Other example, when you see the silicon valley, you see a big melting pot. Many nationality. Many people who have origins, but they are american before all. Ameriva offer better life for us, they offer their brain. MAny company are created by american with origin (like Sergey Brin cofounder of Google)  It's not Trump's brain whitch saved america.
Who make cleaning in Trump's hotels ? not his wife. Mexican people it's ewploi. But Trump president will go himself in his hotels for cleaning. One is never better served than by oneself no ?

Aren't the EU erecting fences on many of its borders? what's the difference - other than that a fence can have a hole?