Topic M2 PACK 1 février - Lying is inacceptable or sometimes Lying is necessary ?

Topic of the week !!

Thanks Marion.

I think that you know my opinion but if not I'll keep it until after others have voiced theirs.

hello!

I think lying is a necessary evil. Of course you shouldn't go around lying to people all day round and shouldn't make a habit out of it, lying is a tool that should be used carefully and as little as possible, it should only be used to protect yourself and others or to avoid hurting someone when it's not necessary.

For some, lying is just a defense mechanism or a way to hide lack of self-confidence or even pain, or maybe they're just trying to protect someone (could be you), most of the time they're just being jerks though. So yeah! lying is bad, but maybe don't label people who lied as bad when we don't know the bigger picture, everybody lies.

Pro tip: Never lie if you haven't mastered the art

Admin wrote:Thanks Marion.

I think that you know my opinion but if not I'll keep it until after others have voiced theirs.

I think that you know my opinion too. I will keep it too ! If people want to answer at the topic....

Hi,
For me lying is the worst thing that can be done, I hate people who lie or have to exaggerate something to feel important. This has no interest because the truth breaks one day or the other .. so be honest about the moment. The only moment where lying can be "good" is if what you think is bad, so to avoid hurting the person, but that's not why you have to say the opposite of what we think.
So lying is bad!

I agree with badr, many people lie to protect themselves. I think that lies can sometimes simplify situations, instead to have an unnecessary debate, for example we can say to our parents that we came back from a party at 3 am and not at 5 am it can avoid receiving morality. ..I think we can lie about futile details.

But I am against the lie, as infidelity or otherwise, we must assume, explain. People always prefer an explanation, it helps them to move forward.

i think that everyone agrees that lying is a bad thing a person could do, and we should agree as well that everyone in this life lies for different raisons at least two or three times a day, may be there is different levels of lying:some pepole lie to protect themself, to avoid biger problemes... but if we dont cotrol this lies and took it as an easy habit to sort yourself from problems, this small lies finish by getting bigger and bigger and become a cycle that you cant take yourself out of it and will cause you bigger problems.
so for me avoiding lies from the first places aviodes you bigger problems.

For me, lying is not necessary in life. I hate people who lie, you can't trust people who lied to you. It is not useful in the sense that people can realize what they want by to being honest and being natural people. I always wanted to be honest. my parents always taught me that a fault admitted was half forgiven and a secret fault was never forgiven. After that, it may not be the right solution in some cases, but I prefer to say things.

Hi,
If, I asked this question it's because I would see the reaction of people. When I was a little girl my family circle said me all the time : "it's very ugly to lie". "It's very bad". I think when you are little, parents used this comparison to learn you the "good" of the "evil". It's to educate children, it's important. Now, I think there is two kinds of lying and two kinds of liars.
There are lyings by omission and true lyings.
There are "little liar" and "compulsive liars".

Lyings by omission, it says a part of the truth, not all the truth. I will try to find example with my own life. For example, when I was in Paris, I lived in a house share with women only. All this women left the house share and three guys replace them. Of course I never said to my mom that I lived with "kind but strange guys". In fact the night, I prefered lock my room door. But, for my mom I still was with women students. I never said all the truth ; to protect her.

True lying is a little more serious. In this part, I will say you an example. A few years ago, I said to my mom that I went to Paris to see a friend (girl) but it was not true...I have joined my boyfriend. For my mom, I am her little baby, little girl and I never present someone. I love this lying because it's my private life and my sweet secret. It's not bad to have a little secret (lovely secret ?).....

Other case, when someone ask me if I find him/her beautiful with his new clothe, I say all the time that this person is beautiful. I don't want hurt people. In this case, I am a "little liar".

The big problem is the "compulsive liars", person who lie a lot. They lie a lot so they begin to believe in their lying. I known a person who has lied all her life. When she died, we discovered that she has build a "mountain of lying". In fact, I am sad for her....she never had an happy life....so sad. The "compulsive liars" is always the loser.
Lots of people speak about "infidelity" about lying. For me, I think it's difficult to judge unfaithful person. We never know how people live and the life with another person is always difficult.

Sorry it's not an answer....

Marion.LM wrote:Hi,
If, I asked this question it's because I would see the reaction of people. When I was a little girl my family circle said me all the time : "it's very ugly to lie". "It's very bad". I think when you are little, parents used this comparison to learn you the "good" of the "evil". It's to educate children, it's important. Now, I think there is two kinds of lying and two kinds of liars.
There are lyings by omission and true lyings.
There are "little liar" and "compulsive liars".

Lyings by omission, it says a part of the truth, not all the truth. I will try to find example with my own life. For example, when I was in Paris, I lived in a house share with women only. All this women left the house share and three guys replace them. Of course I never said to my mom that I lived with "kind but strange guys". In fact the night, I prefered lock my room door. But, for my mom I still was with women students. I never said all the truth ; to protect her.

True lying is a little more serious. In this part, I will say you an example. A few years ago, I said to my mom that I went to Paris to see a friend (girl) but it was not true...I have joined my boyfriend. For my mom, I am her little baby, little girl and I never present someone. I love this lying because it's my private life and my sweet secret. It's not bad to have a little secret (lovely secret ?).....

Other case, when someone ask me if I find him/her beautiful with his new clothe, I say all the time that this person is beautiful. I don't want hurt people. In this case, I am a "little liar".

The big problem is the "compulsive liars", person who lie a lot. They lie a lot so they begin to believe in their lying. I known a person who has lied all her life. When she died, we discovered that she has build a "mountain of lying". In fact, I am sad for her....she never had an happy life....so sad. The "compulsive liars" is always the loser.
Lots of people speak about "infidelity" about lying. For me, I think it's difficult to judge unfaithful person. We never know how people live and the life with another person is always difficult.

Sorry it's not an answer....

Hi Marion,
I understand what you mean by these different types of lies, that there are like ranks with more or less consequences.
If I understand correctly, you differentiate between not telling the full truth and lying.
I especially agree with you that lying still doesn't catch up with people!
In fact, I think that for these people it's a gear, when you start lying I think that for it to "hold up" you still have to lie and lie. I think it's such a shame, actually. People simply couldn't be themselves without having to make it look the other way?

Laure PIQUEREAU wrote:

Marion.LM wrote:Hi,
If, I asked this question it's because I would see the reaction of people. When I was a little girl my family circle said me all the time : "it's very ugly to lie". "It's very bad". I think when you are little, parents used this comparison to learn you the "good" of the "evil". It's to educate children, it's important. Now, I think there is two kinds of lying and two kinds of liars.
There are lyings by omission and true lyings.
There are "little liar" and "compulsive liars".

Lyings by omission, it says a part of the truth, not all the truth. I will try to find example with my own life. For example, when I was in Paris, I lived in a house share with women only. All this women left the house share and three guys replace them. Of course I never said to my mom that I lived with "kind but strange guys". In fact the night, I prefered lock my room door. But, for my mom I still was with women students. I never said all the truth ; to protect her.

True lying is a little more serious. In this part, I will say you an example. A few years ago, I said to my mom that I went to Paris to see a friend (girl) but it was not true...I have joined my boyfriend. For my mom, I am her little baby, little girl and I never present someone. I love this lying because it's my private life and my sweet secret. It's not bad to have a little secret (lovely secret ?).....

Other case, when someone ask me if I find him/her beautiful with his new clothe, I say all the time that this person is beautiful. I don't want hurt people. In this case, I am a "little liar".

The big problem is the "compulsive liars", person who lie a lot. They lie a lot so they begin to believe in their lying. I known a person who has lied all her life. When she died, we discovered that she has build a "mountain of lying". In fact, I am sad for her....she never had an happy life....so sad. The "compulsive liars" is always the loser.
Lots of people speak about "infidelity" about lying. For me, I think it's difficult to judge unfaithful person. We never know how people live and the life with another person is always difficult.

Sorry it's not an answer....

Hi Marion,
I understand what you mean by these different types of lies, that there are like ranks with more or less consequences.
If I understand correctly, you differentiate between not telling the full truth and lying.
I especially agree with you that lying still doesn't catch up with people!
In fact, I think that for these people it's a gear, when you start lying I think that for it to "hold up" you still have to lie and lie. I think it's such a shame, actually. People simply couldn't be themselves without having to make it look the other way?

Hi Laure !
I totally agree with you, it's a gear....it's a shame, you are right.

What is the truth?

I don't think it's as black and white as some of you seem to believe. The truth of something for me is probably not the truth of something for you. Our experiences, beliefs and memories change our perception of the truth.

Even something as straightforward as I did / didn't say this is not really straightforward. More often than not if my wife and I recount a conversation or situation from the past the versions are very different, sometimes even opposite even though we both believe that we are telling the truth. We either perceived the situation different at the time (which is quite normal as we are different people) or we have remembered it in different ways. So is one of us a liar? Are we both liars?

The sunflower is yellow. Are you sure? Our eyes perceive colours because of the 3 receptors in our eye. There is no "yellow" receptor and of course colour is only a wavelength anyway.

Here are examples of colour where you would lie http://mentalfloss.com/article/54448/5-color-illusions-and-why-they-work and of course there is the famous dress illusion. My wife saw it as Gold, I saw it as Blue - was she a liar to say she saw it as gold?

The case of deliberately not telling the truth as you see it has been denounced by many of you and I admit when I was young I probably felt the same. Although I would call any of you a liar if they said they hadn't lied when they were a child. I would be extremely sceptical of anyone who said they hadn't lied in the last 6 months.

When I got married I thought lying was terrible and decided I'd never lie to my wife. Now I wish I'd lied much earlier in our relationship. It doesn't help to say that you didn't really enjoy the meal she prepared or that she doesn't look great in that new dress she bought and loves and I'm sure you can imagine many other scenarios where the truth is hurtful and counterproductive for no reason. I don't call that honest anymore, I call it stupid.

Do I believe in the idea of little lies and big lies? I understand it but really a lie is a lie if it's not the truth. Perhaps we are simply lying to ourselves to pretend that some lies aren't lies because they are for the better. And to pretend that omission isn't a lie is also dishonest isn't it?

I guess what I believe is that lying isn't really the bad thing that we are all told it is, sometimes it's good. We can and should lie to protect our loved ones and certainly telling the truth and hurting them is bad.

In the end I think it's okay to lie as long as you can accept the responsibility of doing it when people find out - which they often will.

Admin wrote:What is the truth?

I don't think it's as black and white as some of you seem to believe. The truth of something for me  is probably not the truth of something for you. Our experiences, beliefs and memories change our perception of the truth.

Even something as straightforward as I did / didn't say this is not really straightforward. More often than not if my wife and I recount a conversation or situation from the past the versions are very different, sometimes even opposite even though we both believe that we are telling the truth. We either perceived the situation different at the time (which is quite normal as we are different people) or we have remembered it in different ways. So is one of us a liar? Are we both liars?

The sunflower is yellow. Are you sure? Our eyes perceive colours because of the 3 receptors in our eye. There is no "yellow" receptor and of course colour is only a wavelength anyway.

Here are examples of colour where you would lie http://mentalfloss.com/article/54448/5-color-illusions-and-why-they-work and of course there is the famous dress illusion. My wife saw it as Gold, I saw it as Blue - was she a liar to say she saw it as gold?

The case of deliberately not telling the truth as you see it has been denounced by many of you and I admit when I was young I probably felt the same. Although I would call any of you a liar if they said they hadn't lied when they were a child. I would be extremely sceptical of anyone who said they hadn't lied in the last 6 months.

When I got married I thought lying was terrible and decided I'd never lie to my wife. Now I wish I'd lied much earlier in our relationship. It doesn't help to say that you didn't really enjoy the meal she prepared or that she doesn't look great in that new dress she bought and loves and I'm sure you can imagine many other scenarios where the truth is hurtful and counterproductive for no reason. I don't call that honest anymore, I call it stupid.

Do I believe in the idea of little lies and big lies? I understand it but really a lie is a lie if it's not the truth. Perhaps we are simply lying to ourselves to pretend that some lies aren't lies because they are for the better. And to pretend that omission isn't a lie is also dishonest isn't it?

I guess what I believe is that lying isn't really the bad thing that we are all told it is, sometimes it's good. We can and should lie to protect our loved ones and certainly telling the truth and hurting them is bad.

In the end I think it's okay to lie as long as you can accept the responsibility of doing it when people find out - which they often will.

"I don't think it's as black and white as some of you seem to believe." => I agree with you Mister Admin. There are lots of differents situations !!! It doesn't help to say the truth all the time. When my mother cooks something for me, it's difficult to say that I don't like. It's obvious that I don't want hurt her. The truth is not adapted when it's hurtful and counterproductive as you say.
As you say, it's a question of responsibility, you can lie if you accept the responsibility and if you know the possible consequences.

Hello everybody,
At first, I was sure that lying is really bad. When I was child I really Don't like to lie, I prefer to Don't said the things. For example, I made cement with my father material and I knew that wasn't good so I hid my preparation…
Or one day I walked in the garage barefoot, I walked on a nail and I had pain but I said Nothing because I Don't want to lie or to be reprimand.

When the Truth can hurt I'm telling the Truth but I had what's positive about it and it goes better. For example, when someone make you a bad dinner, offer you Something you Don't want, or ask you if it is beautiful but is not...the things have Always Something positive^^

Sometimes I can lie if we said me a secret. I think is the only moment I really lie with knowlegde of the fact. I lie at people to whom I can't have confidence on them and I know they have bad attention.

In conclusion, you don't have to lie, said the constructive criticism and say it in the right way. You can lie at people who have bad attention it is a self defense in this case.

Hi guys,

I don't like the people who lie, I can't understand it and I don't forgive it !
What is the point of lying ?

I speak of that when we are in serious situations of course. Because, I'm not a hypocritical person so,
I admit that I sometimes lie for useless situations like :
- "I'm ready, I'm coming soon" and I'm sooooo late
- Yes mum, I made an appointment with the "CAF" (caisse allocations familiales)
- Yes dad, I will be serious and no drink so much to the parties etc

So, yes I lie sometimes but only for situations that are not very important